A Hit Point Proposal

[Li Shenron]

I'd just stick to the minimum rules as possible:

1- say that HP represent at least physical damage plus something else, whatever your imagination is satisfied with

2- drop to/below 0 and you're out of the game (I prefer unconscious rather than dead, but do what you want)

3- divine magic can heal your HP

Make everything else a "module", supplementary rules (even in the PHB, fine for me) or whatever, but keep them optional. Anything beyond those simplest rules is going to piss off a lot of people who just want to play D&D. Those who don't like HP at all, please check the modules or just play another game.

 

[vagabundo]

I prefer to keep hitpoints as minor bumps, scrapes and very minor injuries. As you gain HPs you gain the ability to turn what may have once killed you into a minor wound.

Once HPs are gone you are in trouble. If you take more damage you start dying from a more serious wound; make an immediate save or fall unconscious. You can only take a standard action when you are dying if you are conscious, you must make a death save every round. Failing 3 death saves means you are dead. You can be stabilised as a full round action, anyone trained in heal can auto stabilise, otherwise it is a DC 15.

Recovering from the dying condition requires a full nights rest and maybe more healing, magical or mundane. I don't think I would like PCs to be at their fighting best the next day after nearly dying the day before, but I don't want it to be a pain to track either. Maybe a save every morning against a persistent condition.

That's how I would do it anyway.

EDIT: My idea failed. See dice below .

 

[Ahnehnois]

There are some positives to it, definitely. I like the idea of making constitution score meaningful. I don't think the wounded condition is nearly bad enough or easy enough to acquire, but it's an improvement, and something one could build on if necessary.

I'd hardly call -2 to attacks a "death spiral", but then again, that's a derogatory term for something that's actually a good thing (and, interestingly enough, that 4e has through the bloodied condition moreso than the core rules of earlier editions).

[MENTION=2167]Khaalis[/MENTION], I'm all for vitality/wound and that's not a bad implementation. I'd be pretty surprised if that was the default, but presenting it as an option would indeed be a good idea.

 

[Sadras]

* Critical Injuries:.....Each time a character suffers 25 or more points of damage in a single hit...
* Massive Damage: When a character suffers 50 or more points of damage in a single hit.....

I like the proposal mostly, but the 25 and 50 margins seem arbitrary. For example not everyone has the same tolerance for alcohol - so why use a standard 25/50 rule for a mage as well as a dwarvern fighter. Rather use surge value (1/4 of total hp) and bloodied value (1/2 of total hp) respectively.
That makes more sense - I do like the Fatigue & Stress system though. Might have to steal that idea.

Of all the systems, I think White Wolf have it best though when it comes to health & wounds and the like. But that is a completely different system

 

[Rhenny]

J.C. - I like your idea. In my current campaign, I deal wounds if PC or Creature scores a critical hit. (Actually I have a list of choices PCs or creatures can choose from and wound -2 is one of them).

I agree with you about making some kind of damage/wounds more serious. I never liked the older ideas of "massive damage" either.

When a PC is dying however, I would allow them to make an Immediate Con save in which a Save = stabilized; failure = dying. Then, another failed save = "death's door." And a final save failure = "dead, dead." With these extra chances I don't think your proposed system would cause a death spiral unless a PC travels alone, which is as it should be.

 

[KidSnide]

I like the idea of a wound module that reflects long-term serious injury for grittier style games that care about this kind of thing. But any such system needs a few characteristics:

1) It needs to be an optional module. Core D&D doesn't need this kind of complexity.

2) It needs to be pretty simple and integrate with standard healing spells. If ability score damage is in the game, it should probably be an optional way of creating Con damage.

3) It can't cause death spirals.

To me the interesting question is how bad should the penalties be. My initial thought was that characters should be able to "adventure-through-the-pain" if the threat is serious enough that they have no choice but to go on. And, I guess that's true. If the party is stranded someplace, they can't just rest for a couple weeks.

But I also kind of like the idea that characters could be crippled, not permanently (i.e. curable with sufficient magic) but where it takes long enough to heal that the PCs can't go on with the adventure right now. Wait! That sounds like it could suck, but think of it as an alternative to a TPK. The party isn't dead, but enough of them are crippled that they can't defeat whatever they are going up against. A good wound system could provide a good, standard way to lose the adventure without ending the campaign.

That seems like a valuable property for the kind of campaign that would use this type of system.

-KS

 

[Khaalis]

I like the proposal mostly, but the 25 and 50 margins seem arbitrary. For example not everyone has the same tolerance for alcohol - so why use a standard 25/50 rule for a mage as well as a dwarvern fighter. Rather use surge value (1/4 of total hp) and bloodied value (1/2 of total hp) respectively.

Well, FC was written off of the base 3E d20 OGL, long before 4E. I guess you could do it either way. You could see massive damage as being dependent on how tough you are or as a set universal constant.

 

[Mattachine]

I've got no interest in core rules that make combat even more complicated, which a wound system does.

Give me hit points.

 

[El Mahdi]

I mostly like it. I don't mind the "death spiral" possibility as much as others do. But I also use Action Points with a very broad spectrum of usage. So even with those penalties, characters can still use Action Points to take actions with Heroic Surges (eliminating penalties and adding bonuses, etc.) even though they are severely hurt. Kind of like modeling an Adrenaline surge even though you're basically FUBAR (like McClain at the end of Die Hard, etc.).

Also, I think that's an interesting way to use Constitution/Fortitude in the mix. It is an extra bit of tracking but I don't think it's all that complicated to do. Many do hate any form of extra tracking though, so that would be a major hurdle to acceptance of the mechanic (as well as opinions about death spirals). But all-in-all I like it. Pretty simple, streamlined, and can provide a bit more gritty and realistic feel.

Nice.

 

[Hassassin]

Also, I think that's an interesting way to use Constitution/Fortitude in the mix. It is an extra bit of tracking but I don't think it's all that complicated to do.

What extra tracking do you refer to? I don't think there is any in the proposal.

Checking if my hit points went under my constitution score is no different from checking if they went below zero.