A idea for a change to YB. More info/new idea at end of thread

[Phoenix8008]

No problem, it wouldn't be a large influence (for the single person - it would influence the "bell curve" much, though).

It may not be a bell curve, but at least all fighters would not eventually end up together at Tier 6, rank 10. That is all it is there to do. It should create a slightly more flat bell curve I think.

My problem (one of them ) isn't the prevalence of powerful characters, but the increase of complexity for the individual that this prevalence brings. This solution would not do much to simplify things for the individual, since it would only affect very expert players anyway.

Well, MY idea (the Tier 7 retirement thing) isn't meant to reduce complexity. It was only a proposed solution to Wicht's problem with all fighters ending up bunched into the upper levels. For myself, I don't see how Vanor's idea increases complexity either. The advancement would be the same, just slightly quicker. If a person can't handle the complexity of it as it stands now, then they won't play anyway and this slight increase in advancement speed won't stop those that want to play from learning just like they do now.

 

[Phoenix8008]

Not so much in favor of this, much of the same reasoning Zappo gave.

I'd be more inclined to making tier lose in general more difficult, but even then, I would like to keep some level of 'lose'.

The No-Lose situation takes alot of the risk out of the game.

I disagree. If winning advances you, but losing doesn't, then you have 'LOST' an opportunity for advancement. Just because you don't go backwards in rank doesn't mean that you didn't lose something. Not advancing is a loss as far as I'm concerned.

And as said, alot of pathes have their 'recovery' from lost ranks being a feature. Dark/Lights extra rank from beating one of opposing path. The Yakuza ability to gain another extra rank for beating another higher ranked yakuza, and the Sash coin.

Consider for a moment just how much more Yen Gray would have if he didn't pay for all those loses in rank.

This is the biggest difficulty I see with this idea. It would require some rebuilding of the Paths to accomidate such a change in rules. I don't think this makes it impossible though and I would still be in favor of at least trying to see if the Paths can be altered to make this change without losing too much in the process.

 

[Zappo]

Risk when you have no real controll over winning or lossing isn't much fun IMO. Basicly it's a crap shoot, and I don't like playing craps...

So is getting attacked in D&D when you are at 2 HP, or saving against level loss.

If there was a way someone could controll their chance of winning, then I'd agree the results of losing should be there... But as it is, your "punishing" people for something they have no controll over.

In RPG's you have at least some control over your character, your saves go up, you can do things to improve your odds of suriving a fight... In YB none of those things really exist, unless your fighting someone a great deal lower then you.

Huh? In RPGs your defenses go up a lot, and so it happens in YB (look at the load of powers you gain at any new tier). In YB, enemies of the same tier have attacks to match. And so in RPGs.
Advancement in character survivability in RPGs is totally illusionary in most campaigns. Not in D&D - but even there, you don't die a lot more often at 5th than at 15th. In most other RPGs, though, you die just as much at any level and never reach the point where you are invincible.

Besides, we're not talking about survival. If you lose in YB you just lose a rank - incidentally, losing two fights will not "destroy your whole career", it will just take you down two ranks, and with buffer ranks and similar rules it often isn't that bad.

 

[Vanor]

This would require some slight retooling of some of the paths.

The extra ranks for dark vs light, and yak vs yak I don't think would be a major problem, and could maybe stay in.

As far as Sash go... They would require the most reworking, but I think even that would be fairly easy to do. They could still pay out for a loss, so that would keep things in balance, but a broke sash wouldn't have to worry about losing rank.

 

[reiella]

Eh, the number of passive abilities you get in YB does increase your liklihood to 'survive' a fight.

You have more styles as a green belt than you did as a yellow yes?

And I know I have my sig locs as a Warlord than I did as a Thug .

 

[Zappo]

I disagree. If winning advances you, but losing doesn't, then you have 'LOST' an opportunity for advancement. Just because you don't go backwards in rank doesn't mean that you didn't lose something. Not advancing is a loss as far as I'm concerned.

That's just toying with words. Could as well say that we could make it so that you gain two ranks on a win and one on a loss. You can't go back, that's the big difference. Not advancing would be a loss if this was a real competitive game, which despite all its trappings it isn't.

Besides, not advancing, not going back, not changing, is murder to a character from a roleplaying perspective.

 

[Vanor]

And sig styles don't mean all that much... Pulling a sig style in no way improves your chance of winning the round. They give you extra flags, but don't drasticly alter how likely you are to win the fight.

You can get sig style moves, that suck... Or have the judge simply not like your sig style.

if someone had like 30 sig styles, then yes, it would effect their win/loss, due to immunity, but 5 sig styles really don't effect the game all that much.

Look at the hall of records... You'll notice that the top 5 people are not honor fighters, in fact out of the top 10, only 3 are honored fighters. Also there isn't a single honored fighter past tier 4.

If sig styles really made that much of a differance, then the honored fighters would be ranked higher then they are.

 

[Vanor]

Not advancing would be a loss if this was a real competitive game, which despite all its trappings it isn't.

Besides, not advancing, not going back, not changing, is murder to a character from a roleplaying perspective.

That is my whole point... This isn't a real competitive game, so why make it so hard to advance?

People aren't advancing very quickly right now, mostly they're either standing still or moving backwards. This is as you said, a mater of opinion... Myself I don't care for the idea of losing all the work I've put into my character, when I have 0 controll over his distenty as a fighter.

I see what your problem is, but I look at the number of people who have stopped fighting, because their frustrated with how things are going. If people aren't having fun, then something is wrong. The question is if my idea would make the game more fun for people or less fun.

 

[reiella]

At tier 5 at least... about 8 in 50 moves will have one of my sigs typically.

Although people have been fairly unlucky against me in the past, Gray has yet to pull a hand that didn't have at least one of my sigs.

And a fair number of my fights in the past were overly decided by the presence of sigs in the opponent's hand...

 

[Phoenix8008]

That is my whole point... This isn't a real competitive game, so why make it so hard to advance?

People aren't advancing very quickly right now, mostly they're either standing still or moving backwards. This is as you said, a mater of opinion... Myself I don't care for the idea of losing all the work I've put into my character, when I have 0 controll over his distenty as a fighter.

I see what your problem is, but I look at the number of people who have stopped fighting, because their frustrated with how things are going. If people aren't having fun, then something is wrong. The question is if my idea would make the game more fun for people or less fun.

Vanor is right, this is the crux of the issue. My vote: This idea would make things more fun for more people.