A Kensai's Signature Weapon

[Hyperfist]

There are two considerations here: rules and balance.

Ruleswise, there isn't much to support this interpretation. If you don't interpret the cap on the Kensai Signature Weapon ability to take the base weapon enhancement bonus into account, then there is no cap on the weapon's enhancement bonus. There's no line in the rules that says "if this increase would make the Signature Weapon's total enhancement bonus go above +10, then the ability costs 5000xp extra". Not to mention you can have the equivalent of a +14 weapon before epic (+10 weapon with only a +1 enhancement bonus to attack/damage, with Greater Magic Weapon). The difference here is it allows you to have a +24 weapon.

Where does it say you can have the equivalent of a +14 weapon? In the DMG it says a +10 cap with special abilities included. So how would you get it to be a +24 weapon when the max. Enhancement bonus cap is +5 unless it is an epic weapon. As for citing rules. I didn't cite any. Except for the demarcation between regular and epic. Now I am just confused as to how the +24 came into being? And where is it listed that +14 is allowable for a non-epic weapon. I may not have the book that is coming from.
Thanks

 

[Zelc]

Where does it say you can have the equivalent of a +14 weapon? In the DMG it says a +10 cap with special abilities included. So how would you get it to be a +24 weapon when the max. Enhancement bonus cap is +5 unless it is an epic weapon. As for citing rules. I didn't cite any. Except for the demarcation between regular and epic. Now I am just confused as to how the +24 came into being? And where is it listed that +14 is allowable for a non-epic weapon. I may not have the book that is coming from.
Thanks

An example of a +14 weapon: a +1 Longsword with the Speed, Flaming Burst, Icy Burst, and Wounding weapon enhancements has a weapon bonus of +10. Add in a Greater Magic Weapon, and it becomes a +5 Longsword with the Speed, Flaming Burst, Icy Burst, and Wounding properties. Weapon bonus of +14.

The cap is not a hard cap. It's just what level of weapon bonus you can get on your weapon without it being considered an epic weapon, which costs significantly more. However, if you interpret the Kensai ability to add on extra weapon bonuses without regard to existing weapon bonuses, then you can get a +10 weapon from the base weapon, then another +10 worth of bonuses from the Kensai ability, and another +4 from Greater Magic Weapon. Total of +24.

 

[Hyperfist]

Considering it is mentioned in the DMG as no magic weapon have greater than +10 I don't see how that can mean it is not a hard cap. In addition after looking at the Epic book. I guess you can take the statement that an item can't have a special ability greater than +5 instead of having special abilities that total greater than +5 that would allow for the magic fang and the concept you brought up.

I was looking at the spirit of the rule that the special abilities wouldn't total to more than +5 and what not. But the letter allows what you mentioned.

So I guess then you have to determine how the magic item rules work in your campaign. Having a +1 weapon with +9 worth of bonus abilities seems a bit odd. But it is a good way to use the rules as they are stated. If it is done this way. Then the kensai becomes very dangerous indeed.

However if you had a solid +10 cap, where the enhancement bonus wouldn't stack with the Magic Weapon Spell...that is a different story.

 

[squee]

The FAQ believes the Kensai's level limits the total enhancement bonus. Finally, a Kensai might choose to imbue not an enhancement bonus, but a weapon ability equivalent to an enhancement bonus. To do so, the Kensai simply uses the enhancement bonus price modifiers as if they were true enhancement bonuses. Weapon special abilities don't affect the core question though.

the problem with this interpretation is that it means that taking Kensai gets less and less effective the later you take it.

I think that assuming a character has a weapon appropriate to their level when they start and you are playing with a hard cap of +10 total there should be no problem with allowing a character to simply advance an already magic weapon with their Kensai abilitys. ( I also don't have a problem with using greater magic weapon on a +1 holy axiomatic vorpal long sword, it's only +4 to hit and damage from a 3rd or 4th lvl spell)

 

[Animal]

the problem with this interpretation is that it means that taking Kensai gets less and less effective the later you take it.

isn't it true for most melee PrCs?

 

[Hyperfist]

th( I also don't have a problem with using greater magic weapon on a +1 holy axiomatic vorpal long sword, it's only +4 to hit and damage from a 3rd or 4th lvl spell)

According to the DMG, the special abilities portion can only total up to +5. Just restating something from earlier.

Most melee types are very weak as they get higher up in levels as they are dependent upon equipment. More so than the spellcasting classes. Of course the BO9S helps address this quite a bit.

 

[Zelc]

According to the DMG, the special abilities portion can only total up to +5. Just restating something from earlier.

Where is this?

 

[Hyperfist]

In the DMG, where you are creating magic items. It is in Italics along with the Max enhancement bonus.

 

[eamon]

On the topic of weapon special abilities...

In the DMG, where you are creating magic items. It is in Italics along with the Max enhancement bonus.

In the DMG it says that the enhancement bonus is limited to +5, and that "A single
weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10." This is exactly the same text as the SRD Magic Weapons entry. A weapon can have special abilities in excess of a +5 equivalent. The random generation tables will also generate these.

 

[eamon]

the problem with this interpretation is that it means that taking Kensai gets less and less effective the later you take it.

That's not exactly a convincing argument. There are many suboptimal builds possible; and indeed you shouldn't build them.

The more interesting argument is whether allowing a Kensai to stack his class ability with a preexisting weapon magic is too powerful. Even that argument should only be a supporting guideline - we're trying to find out how the class should work, and not whether it's under-/over- powered.