A LG, LN, or NG Rogue?

[Crothian]

LN is perfect for running a thieves Guild.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

As some people have pointed out, stealing need not be considered a wholy evil act either. It depends more on the circumstances. Very few things are black and white. RPGing is not a box of switches that are only either on or off. There are degress to everything.

Last time I checked, the Lawful alignment was based around the idea that everything is black and white and that there aren't degrees to everything. It's called absolutism . It seems to me that a LG character is all about limiting options and the "you're either with me or against me" attitude. Hence why Stealing is either always good or always bad.

You are advocating that a LG character has the ability to use relativism as a moral tool. I disagree entirely. I just think you have a Chaotic alignment...
.
.
Also, a LG character does see certain skills as being evil and/or chaotic. See OA for a desciption of "low" and "high" skills. A LG character looks at a skill like "Pick Pockets" as being evil and chaotic in most circumstances, therefore it is evil in all circumstances.

I'm not going to say whether this mentality is right (That is irrelevant.) But a "pure" LG character is stubborn, singleminded and unshakable about what is evil and what is good. Sometimes to a fault...
.
.
.
P.S. I agree that Rogues can be LG and NG, but taking and applying skills would have to be more justified than, say, a CE Rogue.

 

[hong]

Last time I checked, the Lawful alignment was based around the idea that everything is black and white and that there aren't degrees to everything. It's called absolutism .

Absolutism is a property of the alignment system as a whole.

 

[hong]

Throw me a bone here. I've only got a post count of twenty.

No.

 

[Crothian]

No.

I'm surprised you didn';t just smack over the head with the bone.

 

[pennywiz]

Last time I checked, the Lawful alignment was based around the idea that everything is black and white and that there aren't degrees to everything. It's called absolutism . It seems to me that a LG character is all about limiting options and the "you're either with me or against me" attitude. Hence why Stealing is either always good or always bad.

You must have a different D&D 3E PHB than I have because mine doesn't have any of that in it. In fact, there is a quote from the PHB that says, "A lawful good character may have a greedy streak, occaisionally tempting him to take something or hoard something he has even if that is not the lawful good thing to do." It might be true that your perception of alignment requires those strictures, or it may be an assumption you have made, but in the PHB it says differently. "Alignment is a tool for developing your character's identity. It is not a straightjacket for restricting your character." Forcing "Absolutism" into that jacket isn't in the rules as they were written for 3E. There are extremes, but extremes are not the norm nor even the majority.

You are advocating that a LG character has the ability to use relativism as a moral tool. I disagree entirely. I just think you have a Chaotic alignment...

heh Maybe, I have but I'm just going by the rules and not trying to foist my own personal slant on them.

Also, a LG character does see certain skills as being evil and/or chaotic. See OA for a desciption of "low" and "high" skills. A LG character looks at a skill like "Pick Pockets" as being evil and chaotic in most circumstances, therefore it is evil in all circumstances.

"Most" does not equal "All"

I'm not going to say whether this mentality is right (That is irrelevant.) But a "pure" LG character is stubborn, singleminded and unshakable about what is evil and what is good. Sometimes to a fault...

Not sure what you mean by "pure" but just because "some" LG characters show those traits, not all "must" have those traits. To quote the SRD again On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, and a lack of adaptability." The operative word being "can" include not "must" include.

P.S. I agree that Rogues can be LG and NG, but taking and applying skills would have to be more justified than, say, a CE Rogue.

I agree that the application of the skills is the point to consider in this case, but all of the skills are available no matter what alignment is chosen. How they are applied is handled by the DM when deciding whether a character's alignment changes during the course of the game.

 

[Victim]

Pick pocket has other uses besides petty theft. It can be used for sleight of hand tricks, and planting objects on people. What good spy would be without the skills for a brush pass?

 

[kkoie]

I think it's very realistic to have a Lawful Neutral thief. Mind you, I said thief not rogue.

An example of a LN thief could be someone with a strict code on how he robs and steals.

- he always makes sure he pays his guilde its due (no more no less).

- when on a job, he avoids killing people as much as possible (killing someone might attract attention, not to mention the penalties if he is caught). note when I say 'job' I'm refering to acts of larceny, not adventuring.

- when a LN thief is on the job with others, and one of his comrads kills a witness (or even if he's by himself and he's forced to kill a witness), then the LN thief will have no qualms about killing further witnesses(so long as the noise doesn't attract attention). It's not evil, it's practical, by killing one person he's already sentenced him self to a punishment of murder, what differnse does it make if he kills more people?! Like in the movie Heat why leave additional witnesses to a scene of murder? This is differn't from an evil thief, an evil thief would never qualm from killing to begin with, let alone have to have a reason to do so.

- a LN thief will usually not rob a place blind, why should he? If he bankrupts the shop (or sends the house owner to the poor farm) thats one less potential place he could rob again in the future!

- When a LN thief makes a promise, he almost always keeps it. He may be a thief, but he does have that much 'honor.' At the same time, if that same promise later proves to be inefficient or impractical, well, he's shouldn't have made the promise if he couldn't keep it. But at the same time, one always has their limits.

Anyway you get the idea.

K Koie

 

[Umbran]

Last time I checked, the Lawful alignment was based around the idea that everything is black and white and that there aren't degrees to everything. It's called absolutism .

Not quite.

A lawful character has a set of rules they work by. These rules don't have to be simple, nor do they need to be mere dichotomy - "This act is wrong/right in all cases". The rules, like our own modern laws, can be complicated - "This act is wrong, except when justified by the following circumstances... and in the following cases the act is still not right, but it isn't so bad..."

Lawful can have shades of grey, but they are predefined

 

[Ashtal]

Pick pocket has other uses besides petty theft. It can be used for sleight of hand tricks, and planting objects on people. What good spy would be without the skills for a brush pass?

Dang, you beat me to it!

The ever popular stage magician HAS to have pickpocket in order for many of his individual, face to face tricks to work. A completely legal activity.

2E Thief !=3E Rogue. The Rogue is an expanded, better visualized and defined class that offers more roles to play. And huzzah for that. Certainly, the old Thief can be created with the Rogue, but a lot of other possibilities, and alignments, can exist here as well.