A little party level question...

[Keops]

Hello.

This is my first post here, and I hope to become well acquainted here. My name is Ricardo Chirino, and I'm a 17 years old student from Maracaibo, Venezuela. Well, I have a little question for you guys out there. I'm a little confused with this whole "party level" thing. I've read the Player's Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide, and I recently acquired the Monster Manual, so I'm planning to run a D&D adventure. However, I need some help to determine the party level. I didn't understand it very well. So far, I know I need to match the party level to the encounter level, to make it challenging (correct me if I'm wrong) for the party playing the game. However, I didn't understand at all how do you determine the level of a party. I don't think it's an average of the character levels in a party, because if, for example, the party is made of 7 level 1 characters, I don't think the party level is 1, but you can help me here, since I'm not sure.

Well, thanks in advance!

See you!

 

[mikebr99]

Well Ricardo...

Party level is based on 4 characters. 4 characters of 1st level would have an ECL of 1. 7 characters average out to 2.6 ECL.

This party should be able to take on a group of 10 Orcs with a 3rd level (something) leader.

The best thing to do to some fast knowledge and experience would be to get some 1st level modules to either take your party through, or at least to get an idea as to what should be thrown at this level of party.

 

[rushlight]

Well, the basic Party Level is actually an average of the levels of the players, but that assumes that the average party is 4 players. With 7 players, you will need to adjust the Party Level a bit. Not too much though, especially at low levels. Perhaps still use an Encounter Level 1 monster for 7 level 1 players, but give it full hit points instead of rolling, or something like that. If your players are especially good at perfecting a character, then MAYBE use a EL 2 monster, but keep in mind that the extra damage it might be able to do could kill off a level 1 player or two.

As levels rise, the Encounter Level system seems to get a bit looser. I often send monsters 2 or sometimes 3 ELs higher than my players (who are around level 13). They don't seem to have an overly difficult time killing the monster.

The main rule of the Encounter Level / Party Level system is that if the EL and the PL are balanced, the party should usually expend about half of their resources in order to kill the monster. Half of a 1st level player's resources means much more than half of a 13th level player's resources.

Anyway, you'll get a good feel for it after an encounter or two. Just go easy at first, so that you don't just kill off the party by accident. Soon you'll be very comfortable with it!

 

[Keops]

Thanks for the answers! Well, I see. But there's a little something I don't get. If you use a 4 level 1 character party as the indicator for an ECL of 1, why does a 7 level 1 character party has an ECL of 2.6? I suppose an 8 level 1 character party should have a 2 ECL. Well, anyways, your replies were of big help! Thanks a lot!

 

[mikebr99]

You might also wan to to consider starting the players off a 2nd level instead. this will give you and them a little comfort level if things get bad.

Are your party members also 1st timers?

If so, they are probably going to come up with some really wierd characters (class combinations), so giving them two or even three levels to experiment with right off the bat will increase the enjoyment as well as get them some knowledge as to what characters they should be playing.

But with seven of them, they do have some room to experiment... but you could suggest that there be one of each (straight Cleric, Wizard, Fighter, and thief). After this core of straight characters have been taken, then the rest can branch out to fighter/mages thief/illusionists, bards, etc.

 

[mikebr99]

A party of 8 - 1st level characters would have an ECL of 3.

There is an ECL calculator located on the electronic resources page of this website.

But As mentioned by Rushlight, go easy on the newbees...

 

[Umbran]

Um, sorry, mikebr99, but you seem to be confusing some things. ECL is not a thing for parties. ECL is "Equivalent Character Level". It's what you use to determine the effective level of a monster PC...

Keops - the "party level" is the average level of the PCs. The rules are written for you to compare that average to the Challenge Rating (CR) of a creature, to guage if that creature is an appropriate challenge for the party. A CR 1 creature will typically chew up one sixth to one quarter of a typical 1st level party's resources (spells, hit points, etc).

Now, the system is balanced for a typical party of 4 adventurers (actually, it seems the typical party is one fighter, on wizard, one cleric, and one rogue). If you have more characters or if they are otherwise odd, you may have to take that into account when comparing party level to CR.

There is no formulae, no tried and true method or calculation to do this. There are too many variables. Your group of 7 will clearly be tougher than a typical 4 person party, but how much tougher? That really depends on what classes they are, what their stats are, and so forth.

Since you're very new at this, you might consider reducing your party size - if anyone is playing two characters, ask them to take only one. If you have 7 players, split them into two groups for a little while, as you get the hang of things. You can put the two groups together later.

Also, if you're new to the system, you might want to consider using a published adventure to start with, rather than something you put together yourself. The published adventures are generally playtested and pretty well designed, and give you good examples of what your party should be able to take on.

 

[mikebr99]

But I you threw a group of adventurers at your party they'd have an ECL right?

Why can't I use the same definition to give the guy an idea of how powerful his party should be relative to what his party should be facing?

 

[Lord Ben]

I started fresh with 4 other people and none of us had played before either except I played twice.

Here is the first "adventure" I ran. Briefly: They were walking down the road when they saw farmers in dispair. They asked the Farmers what was wrong and they said that an Ogre had killed one of their cows and was eating it. A couple of the young guys had fired their hunting bows at it and they chased it into the barn. They didn't want to go in after it since all they had was their bows and pitchforks. The PC's decided to follow and they fought an Ogre with 15hp. Rogue was sneaking in the back of the barn and fired his crossbow through a crack in the door, the Sorceror also went around back and tried to daze the Ogre. The fighter and Cleric charged through the front.

After the battle I said they were all promoted to 2nd level. I didn't even use XP until like 6th level or so. I just did modules and when it came to an important point I'd level them up so it wouldn't be too hard on them. Don't worry about following the rules exactly. Learn how to tell a good story and how to run combat. If you roll bluff when you should roll innuendo then don't worry about it, it's not going to kill anything. If you don't know a rule just make a decision on the spot and keep playing, look it up later because trying to learn mid-combat will slow it down. After a while you'll know what's going on. At first I always ignored the wolfs improved trip and the bears improved grab and we still had fun.

 

[ruleslawyer]

But I you threw a group of adventurers at your party they'd have an ECL right?

Why can't I use the same definition to give the guy an idea of how powerful his party should be relative to what his party should be facing?

No. A group of adventurers has an EL, or Encounter Level. ECL is Effective Character Level, and is a term used to determine the effective level that a character of a more powerful non-standard race has for purposes of starting level, equipment, XP needed to advance in levels, and XP earned from encounters with a particular CR.

Keops: Umbran is right. There is no hard-and-fast rule for determining the effective party level of a 7-character party. If I were you, I would treat the effective party level (EPL) of a group of 1st-level characters as 1st level. Since you are an inexperienced DM, it is better to throw challenges at the party that are too easy rather than challenges that are too difficult. Also, keep in mind that level advancement will be slower for this group than for a standard four-person group.

As the PCs rise in level, though, I would change the EPL. Once they hit 3rd level, consider them EPL 4; 4th-level, EPL 5; 5th level, EPL 7, and 6th level, EPL 8. From this point on, treat the party's EPL as the average levels of party members +2. This should be subject to whether most members of the party are single-classed. If you have multiclassed spellcasters in your group (and I strongly advise you to discourage your players from multiclassing their spellcaster characters), then treat the party EPL as somewhat lower; many encounters with creatures of a certain CR depend on certain spells being available to a party where EPL = CR.