A Lot of Things to Rememberize?

[Campbell]

Yup, I was a bit disappointed about that, too. I had hoped, they'd have found a way to avoid video-game style amounts of hit points and damage. I've even hated that back in the old days of Bard's Tale:

'You hit the vampire lord 8 times and do 326 damage with your legendary sword of legend.' Meh.

Why do high level monsters need to have 500 hp and high level characters dealing 100 damage per hit. What's the advantage over having monsters with 50 hp and characters dealing 10 damage per hit?

When modeling increased survivability and murdering efficiency there are two basic models.

1. You can go with the lumberjack model, where you use increasingly bigger axes against increasingly larger trees.

2. You can go with the whackamole model, where moles get faster and the speed with which you swing the mallet increases.

Most games go with the lumberjack model because not hitting the mole after 100 swings leads to drinking entirely too much. The second model also becomes tricksy when you have magical abilities that skip right past defenses.

 

[Frostmarrow]

When modeling increased survivability and murdering efficiency there are two basic models.

1. You can go with the lumberjack model, where you use increasingly bigger axes against increasingly larger trees.

2. You can go with the whackamole model, where moles get faster and the speed with which you swing the mallet increases.

Most games go with the lumberjack model because not hitting the mole after 100 swings leads to drinking entirely too much. The second model also becomes tricksy when you have magical abilities that skip right past defenses.

I'd like to have a system where it goes up and then goes down. Only the skills and feats become plentier. Sort of like a how a sports star becomes increasingly better up until the day he is physically bested by those younger yet keep up due to vast experience and steely nerves.

I.e. Geezer, a 15 level warrior, should have lower Strength and therefore AB than Stud, an 8 level warrior, but Geezer should have more skills and feats.

Today the lowering of stats is tied to age but it realy should be tied to level. At a certain point, after countless battles, the strain on the body will be too much regardless of you are 25 or 85 years old.

 

[howandwhy99]

Dragotha, the dracolich in AoW, has about 750 hit points. IIRC, that fight took us about 4 rounds, meaning he lost about 150-200 hp each round.

4 rounds? How long did that take in real time?

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Yup, I was a bit disappointed about that, too. I had hoped, they'd have found a way to avoid video-game style amounts of hit points and damage. I've even hated that back in the old days of Bard's Tale:

'You hit the vampire lord 8 times and do 326 damage with your legendary sword of legend.' Meh.

Why do high level monsters need to have 500 hp and high level characters dealing 100 damage per hit. What's the advantage over having monsters with 50 hp and characters dealing 10 damage per hit?

this is the problem i have found with numeruis rpgs. You don't gain much for leveling because bad guys level with you. what you do get is more options, and thats about it. going from 50hp/10damage to 500hp/100 damage means you can realistically fight enormous dragons, and it makes sense why none has killed the dragon yet. Other then that, leveling in general is a scam.

So to recap, leveling is all about more options, epic encounters, and perhaps increasing how lathal and encounter might be (save or die).

 

[Kae'Yoss]

this is the problem i have found with numeruis rpgs. You don't gain much for leveling because bad guys level with you.

I'd say it's a necessity. If the bad guys wouldn't level with you, it would get boring rather quickly.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

If combat is particularly bloody and people are getting limbs hacked off, of course there's going to be a lot to rememberize, especially if swords of sharpness make a return.

 

[Khairn]

What is interesting to me, speaking as a programmer, is that the combat as described (if the underlying mechanics are what I think that they are) is much easier to program a real time game for than D&D's historical mechanics. In other words, its a good bet that one of the design goals of 4th edition was to make transition between paper and CPU as seemless in either direction as possible.

Yep

 

[Jhaelen]

Most games go with the lumberjack model because not hitting the mole after 100 swings leads to drinking entirely too much. The second model also becomes tricksy when you have magical abilities that skip right past defenses.

I can see your point, but I'm not entirely convinced.

Imho, the trick to make the whackamole approach work is that you use a perfect defense as a default and then allow some exceptions that can penetrate it - not the other way around.

Golems have always been a prime example for that approach: Instead of listing everything they're immune to, they're immune to everything except one or two things which affect them in an interesting way (3.X muddied that somewhat because anything not allowing SR gets through).

Encounters like this also reward tactics over brute force and make it worthwhile to research enemies before engaging them which should result in more interesting roleplaying opportunities.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

This design tactic has a faint aura of "smackdown on the players when they're winning". I'm not saying that's the intent, but how when the monsters get tougher as you winnow them down? That's almost the Grudge Monster school of play.

Taking out AoOs deletes a rich quality of the game. When you move in 3.0/3.5, you are always looking out for your environment. It can change a fight. It's fun. The rules could be simplified a bit, but I like them.

 

[Odhanan]

Taking out AoOs deletes a rich quality of the game. When you move in 3.0/3.5, you are always looking out for your environment. It can change a fight. It's fun. The rules could be simplified a bit, but I like them.

I too. AOOs are fun. They give dynamics to the combat. They allow players to act while it's not their turn. It shuffles the activity at the game table. If the principles are simpler, but they're still there in 4E, that's all good.