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A Merc's Life [OOC 02]

Scotley

Hero
As I know you guys know I will do as I want anyway, I am curious to know what you guys think.

By two-handed weapon do you mean like a Halberd or Greatsword or a double weapon like a Gnome Hooked Hammer or Dwarven Urgosh? I had a dire flail wielder once that I thought was pretty cool.

From a pure max damage stand point I gather from what I've read that a two handed weapon with optimal feats wins out. The big burly damage dealer can be fun but feels like a bit of one trick pony to me after a while. This is the easiest to design and implement.

Two-weapon stuff is a little trickier. Using the same weapon in each hand ala Dirztz (sp?) Drow of the twin scimitars gets you the most bang for your feat buck; although, I think Pathfinder doesn't really support a non-light weapon in the off hand perhaps in an intetional slight of one of Wizard's post popular and iconic NPC's? I like the twin short swords myself and have found it quite efficacious. By 4th level you can get the boost of weapon specialization in each hand which more than makes up for the slightly less optimal of the base weapons. Feat costs are always gonna be your biggest problem. You can have a damn fine double dagger wielding rogue if only you can afford the feats to be effective in both melee and ranged while boosting sneak attack damage to the max. Long about 5/6 fighter rogue is the sweet spot for that build when you add specialization, 3d6 sneak attack with special features and improved crit to the mix. Starting at 3rd level in a play by post that's never gonna happen.

I was having an interesting experiment in your ill-fated game with Gorgol the Scourge who fights with a scorpion whip and a long sword. He could do the standard two weapon routine or try using the whip a little further out or to trip. I thought it had potential even thought the second weapon damage was kinda weak if only because he had interesting options. If that game had continued until Gorgol could add weapon specialization and improved two weapon fighting as well as a couple d6 sneak attack he'd have been an ass kicker to be proud of. I don't think Mowgli wants us to reveal too much about our characters for this game, but I will say with cryptic quotation marks that my submitted character will have the option of using two 'weapons'. If you are willing to lay out the feats for an exotic weapon two-weapon fighter the Aklys has some interesting potential, it is a light weapon that can be used at range and does a very respectable d8 damage as well as being a trip and perform weapon. No other standard weapon can match it, some Kobold tail attachments do a d8, but that's pretty limited in application. It also offers the ranged trip. A brawler using kicks or elbows as his primary and the Aklys as his off-hand could have his primary hand free to help retrieve with weapon with its cord (a move action) between attacks. Tripping foes in the second rank could be great fun in those fights were spell casters or archer are protected by a row of melee guys. Indeed, you may well see such a fellow as a villain used against PC's in one of the games I run at a future date. But it would be feat intensive build. You'd need exotic weapon, two-weapon and improved trip as the price of entry. Arguably, the Brawler or monk would not need two weapon. Still, you would want lots of feats to optimize the ranged, two-weapon and melee aspects of the build. Might not be suitable for such a low level game, but long about 8th or 9th level this could be great fun with lots of attacks a round with one ranged and/or trip each round.

Avoiding exotics you could likely do something interesting mixing say a flail (with the potential for trips and disarms) with a Battle Aspergillam for that splash of special sauce. Add in some light hammers or star knives for the superior range in an off handed throwing weapon (hammers fly better than daggers, clubs or axes? Seems counter intuitive) once you've exhausted your splash.

So many of the interesting builds are just too feat intensive to be much fun at a game of this level. A human fighter or a fighter of one of the races that gets an exotic double weapon as a martial weapon is about the only way you can make the double weapon thing work and not feel sub-par. The limit of only one trait doesn't help. I've never built a character than I can remember around a double weapon other than the dire flail wielder. I think he was a 3.5 or maybe even 3.0 build. So, my memory is fuzzy at best. I won't say that a cool double weapon dude can't be build I just don't have any real experience with it. It will be all about the feats. I guess you do get the benefit of applying feats like weapon focus and weapon specialization to all your attacks, so there is potential there.

Even Leif's humble sword and board fighter is gonna be wishing for extra feats when you consider the fun he could have with a highly optimized shield bash and the extra damage of an exotic one handed weapon like a bastard sword or Dwarven war axe. Even without the bash there are a ton of cool shield feats. Especially if he finds a buddy to do some teamwork feats with.

Anyway, that's likely way more than you were looking for. I should really be working on my own character...
 

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Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
Great sword or great axe is what I was thinking . . . . now to finish your post . . . .

I am thinking big dude with a big weapon and maybe intimidate to scare someone staring at a very messy ending.
 
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Scotley

Hero
There are feats that give a free intimidate check when you whack folks, insult them or put on a show that you should check out. Okay, most of these require you to be higher level or specific races and classes, but the names are so evocative I just had to post the whole list. :)

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/call-out-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/cornugon-smash-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dazzling-display-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/demoralizing-lash-combat-hobgoblin

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/destructive-persuasion-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dreadful-carnage-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/enforcer-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/gory-finish-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/gruesome-slaughter-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/intimidating-prowess-combat---final

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/killing-flourish-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/terrorizing-display-combat-hobgoblin

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/warning-shot-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/bullying-blow-combat-orc

Should you chose to focus on Intimidate here is a trait that you might find helpful, most of these would be easy to build a nice back story for the requirement:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/steel-skin

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/omen

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/unnatural-presence-old-cults

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/bruising-intellect

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/bully
 

Leif

Adventurer
Very nice, Scott! Thanks for the advice, information, and links. And you sorta read my mind about my fighter, er, or whatever he may really be....
 

Scotley

Hero
Very nice, Scott! Thanks for the advice, information, and links. And you sorta read my mind about my fighter, er, or whatever he may really be....

If you want to be a basher you gotta have two-weapon fighting, improved shield bash and at least a 15 DEX (17 is better as you'll want improved two-weapon fighting some day) and at least a 16 STR. Maybe an exotic weapon for the main hand for that extra bit of damage. You have to use a light shield or the penalties for two weapon fighting are pretty onerous. Do check out the quickdraw shield and of course shield spikes. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/quickdraw-shield

If you want to use the shield just as a shield the feat costs are lower and you can really max out AC. Then you'll want traits, feats and class/race features that make opponents attack you. You'll be doing less damage, so your best contribution to the party is to let the bad guys waste all their attacks against your insanely high AC.

Be sure to check out Missile Shield http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/missile-shield-combat
 
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Scotley

Hero
Oh and note that in the Ultimate Combat book you will find the option to add the 'throwing' feature to your shield for an extra 50 gp. But you have to take an exotic weapon proficiency in it to use it effectively. I can't imagine this as a particularly good use for an oh so valuable feat. I guess somebody over at Pathfinder went to see the Captain America movies. :) You would take a non-proficiency penalty of -4 if throwing your shield without the exotic weapon feat, but hey, for 50 gp it might be worth having the option in a pinch. You never know when having a chance of hitting someone who is otherwise just out of reach could be worth taking a shot even at -4. It is a better missile weapon than a dagger with twice the range and a notch higher damage. You should have a high enough dex and bab as well as the masterwork bonus so what the hell. If you can spare the coin I'd say go for it.
 

Leif

Adventurer
If you want to use the shield just as a shield the feat costs are lower and you can really max out AC. Then you'll want traits, feats and class/race features that make opponents attack you. You'll be doing less damage, so your best contribution to the party is to let the bad guys waste all their attacks against your insanely high AC.
This is what I was thinking. What traits/feats/features do you suggest? My plan was to be a human fighter....
 

Scotley

Hero
Antagonize http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/antagonize is the feat to start with. Any of those traits that boost intimidate that I posted above will then be useful or you can look at ones for diplomacy too. Between those two groups I suspect you'll find one that will give you the roleplay/backstory requirements Mowgli is looking for. If not there might be a shield related trait or two out there though I don't know of any off the top of my head.

Look at stand still http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/stand-still-combat---final which will allow you to jump out in front of the group and limit enemies ability get past you. It does require Combat Reflexes http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-reflexes-combat which you'll likely want anyway if you go for this type of build.

Combat Patrol http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-patrol-combat will kick in at level five. It basically allow you to threaten a much bigger area which makes Stand Still even more fun.

Pin Down http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/pin-down-combat is great for forcing the bad guys to stay by you, but sadly it doesn't come until 11th level.

There are feats that boost Intimidate and Diplomacy, but I don't think you'll have any to spare for that until later on.

There are some fighter archtypes to consider too. Armor Master gives up a good bit, but you get some cool abilities from it. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...types/paizo---fighter-archetypes/armor-master

There is also Shielded Fighter http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...s/paizo---fighter-archetypes/shielded-fighter which is arguably more useful if you are going the basher route.

You should look at Phalanx Soldier http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...es/paizo---fighter-archetypes/phalanx-soldier too. Using a pole arm or a spear as a one handed weapon along with your shield is pretty cool. It gives you a significant damage boost without using a feat on an exotic one handed weapon. Sword and Board is cool, but Halberd and Board is a whole other level of whoop @$$. This guy should carry a reach polearm too. Check out the Lucern Hammer's bonus to sundering the bad guys armor. Reach out and knock somebody's plate mail off before they get close enough to uselessly whack at your shield. :) Of course for that you'll want improve sunder, but that's not a bad thing given that it not only makes you better at breaking their stuff, but also makes it harder for them to break yours. It requires Power Attack, which you'll probably want anyway.
 

Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
I am going two handed warrior archetype, maybe use great sword with a great axe as a back up, heavy flail and compound long bow for [other weapon needs].
 
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Leif

Adventurer
Antagonize http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/antagonize is the feat to start with. Any of those traits that boost intimidate that I posted above will then be useful or you can look at ones for diplomacy too. Between those two groups I suspect you'll find one that will give you the roleplay/backstory requirements Mowgli is looking for. If not there might be a shield related trait or two out there though I don't know of any off the top of my head.

Look at stand still http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/stand-still-combat---final which will allow you to jump out in front of the group and limit enemies ability get past you. It does require Combat Reflexes http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-reflexes-combat which you'll likely want anyway if you go for this type of build.

Combat Patrol http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-patrol-combat will kick in at level five. It basically allow you to threaten a much bigger area which makes Stand Still even more fun.

Pin Down http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/pin-down-combat is great for forcing the bad guys to stay by you, but sadly it doesn't come until 11th level.

There are feats that boost Intimidate and Diplomacy, but I don't think you'll have any to spare for that until later on.

There are some fighter archtypes to consider too. Armor Master gives up a good bit, but you get some cool abilities from it. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...types/paizo---fighter-archetypes/armor-master

There is also Shielded Fighter http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...s/paizo---fighter-archetypes/shielded-fighter which is arguably more useful if you are going the basher route.

You should look at Phalanx Soldier http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...es/paizo---fighter-archetypes/phalanx-soldier too. Using a pole arm or a spear as a one handed weapon along with your shield is pretty cool. It gives you a significant damage boost without using a feat on an exotic one handed weapon. Sword and Board is cool, but Halberd and Board is a whole other level of whoop @$$. This guy should carry a reach polearm too. Check out the Lucern Hammer's bonus to sundering the bad guys armor. Reach out and knock somebody's plate mail off before they get close enough to uselessly whack at your shield. :) Of course for that you'll want improve sunder, but that's not a bad thing given that it not only makes you better at breaking their stuff, but also makes it harder for them to break yours. It requires Power Attack, which you'll probably want anyway.
That would be a neat trick to use a halberd one-handed! (I think Mowgli is probably limiting us to size M PCs...)
 

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