A Paladin Shows Mercy to a Priestess of Orcus?

[Michael Morris]

Ravlek - consider yourself *very* lucky that I am the only admin I know of on any board anywhere that does not ban users or moderate posts, or you would be taking a week's vacation to consider the prudence of mocking anyone on this board, let alone an admin.

Most of my 5000 posts are in the meta board handling the error reports and complaints concerning the boards. Only rarely do I get a chance to read a thread or take the time to actually post on D&D instead of a technical issue.

I skimmed over the thread and noticed your repeated emphasis on following the rules as written. These are the things you chose to emphasize, repeatedly, even quoting yourself many times. If this isn't the message you intended to send out, then you need to revise how you make points.

At no point did I criticize you as a person - I only criticized your statements and said you were wrong. If you view being called wrong a personal attack, that is unfortunate but I assure you that in any forum where opinions are debated it will happen again and you will have to get used to it.

Hint: Usernames of moderators and admins are in bold text.

 

[Ravlek]

Michael,

I disagree with some of your points, and in the interest of not hijacking the thread further perhaps we should discuss this via e-mail?

 

[Nightfall]

Clarification please!!

Firstly most gods don't take THAT active an interest. I site Greyhawk and Eberron as starting points. Secondly, Orcus isn't a "mere god" he's also a Demon Prince. They don't let slights like this go unnoticed. Thirdly most panethons have a kind of balance system. While the paladin's god MIGHT act on her behalf I don't think said god wants to create a dependence on said followers.

 

[sword-dancer]

I don`t, I don`t know so much about Sharks world, but I consider it so.
Ifg Orcus meddles in personally, then Torm, Paladine, Hababuk, Mystra would step in personal, Torm had taken on Bane to defend his people and would`ve taken on Cyric if possible for one follower.

Which means for them Orcus if you made the precedenc of going personally against on of my own, i set the precedenc of going personnally on you!

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Could I use this as Sig?

Certainly.

Lord Pendragon,

Uhm well the paladin MIGHT try but some how I'm not sure how firmly committed the rest of the party is. I mean if one's a N druid and another, a CN rogue, they just might say "Hey let's cut our losses and ditch the traitor. I mean no reason to trust her." Just saying.

Hrm. I see your point. I guess I'm used to a more unified party. Not necessarily that everyone sees things eye to eye, but that once a decision is made, the entire group sticks with it. And a charismatic, forceful paladin is likely to get her way often.

But I definitely see what you're saying. In a party that's not particularly Good, a paladin is going to have a hard sell, convincing the group that they should protect the cleric from the forces of darkness.

But if the paladin wants to "save her" her call. Me, I'd just expect much death. Orcus has died and come back once already. I don't see how a paladin, no matter the level, could stop him and his forces IF he's that bound and determined. And believe me, I'm sure he is.

This is really up to the DM and what kind of roll he wants this event to play in the campaign, and what kind of campaign he wants to run. SHARK could decide he wants to run a fugivitive campaign for a while, and set the entire Army of Orcus on the party. He could decide on an escalating campaign ending in a final showdown, in which the party would challenge (and hopefully defeat) successively stronger minions of Orcus, until finally taking the battle to Orcus himself. SHARK could even decide on a deus ex machina, where the paladin can ask for, and receive, divine fortification against the forces of darkness. Many archtypical Christian stories feature priests and knights calling on God to fortify them in their hour of trial. Who better to receive that grace than a paladin? (Previous comment not meant as religious commentary, but rather an example of archtypical deus ex machina.)

So really, the field is wide open. I definitely agree that Orcus will respond to this. Demon Princes aren't known for being forgiving. But the nature of that response depends on what SHARK needs in his campaign.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Hint: Usernames of moderators and admins are in bold text.

On a small side-note, I'm not sure about everyone else, but on my screen the bold and plain text look nearly identical. I'd never notice it unless it was pointed out to me, or I knew the user to be a moderator and was thus looking for it. Having it be a different color would be much more visible and therefore effective. Not sure if that is possible, of course...

 

[painandgreed]

And, If Orcus plyed this game, would the pally god sit on the sideline and enjoy the show or would this god stood by his own?

They both are playing this game, through their servants and this time the paladin's god has won. We'll see if Orcus can counter attack with what he can do with the cleric. If I was Orcus, I'd let her go wayward and become good. Then when nobody suspects it, I'd use the hold I had on an old cleric to send them dreams reminding them of their past crimes and evilness. Perhaps influncing them just a little so they commit some small evil act (or just thought) and send her dreams of being rejected by the good people for it. If she hides her evil act, then it's just a matter of using that against her as blackmail till she will commit even more evil acts to hide it and eventually become evil again rather than face the wrath of her old god or his minions.

 

[Nightfall]

Alright here goes...

Lord P,

You obvious have had different groups than I've had. Most of the time, it is the most charismatic that leads the group. And considering paladins have to have Cha to be the best they can be, there you are. My point is I've dealt with a number of CN people and/or very unscrupleous people that don't mind being borderline evil and occasionally good.

Agreed but from what I remember of Shark's campaigns, it's usually a church oriented thing where the PCs, not the NPCs OR the Gods, interfere that much. I don't however see them challenging Orcus...but then again that's just me.

Sword,

Read my previous statement and I'll put in an addendum. Torm's fight with Bane was when they were BOTH avatars only. They weren't "true gods" any more. (Thank you Ao. I hate you.) (also doesn't recall Shark's campaign mixing FR gods with DL gods...) What it means is this: Campaigns are different!


Pain,

No...my reading of it was the damn traitor, not being a TRUE devotee, got scared and decided to screw the guy that owned her soul! As for you being Orcus...*shudder* Anyway, IF my reading of Orcus is more correct, I don't just "let it slide" or wait around. You do that, people start to walk all over you. That's not what being a CE god of Undead is about. No better to kill the witch, finish the consignation to Thanatos, and get on with the business of taking out Demogorgon and Graz'zt along with strengthening existing cults.

 

[sword-dancer]

Agreed but from what I remember of Shark's campaigns, it's usually a church oriented thing where the PCs, not the NPCs OR the Gods, interfere that much. I don't however see them challenging Orcus...but then again that's just me. .

Yes, but thesame rules goes in both sides, and Pallys and clerics have normally churches, orders and faithful to back them up, back them very much up sometimes.

Torm's fight with Bane was when they were BOTH avatars only. They weren't "true gods" any more. (Thank you Ao. I hate you.)

That was exactly my point

(also doesn't recall Shark's campaign mixing FR gods with DL gods...) What it means is this: Campaigns are different!

Nothing more than I remember them mixing with Greyhawk gods. True Orcus could send his minions against the party or his High priests or one high priet could do it.
Only
1 The party fights Orcus cult already
2 Pallys automatically at war with Orcus and his cults
3 The price of hunting could be to high,

 

[Voadam]

To me it is not about insisting:

From dictionary.com

association

1. The act of associating or the state of being associated.

associate
v. associated, associating, associates
1. To join as a partner, ally, or friend.

The paladin is associating with the priestess.

Some good idea's in the rest of your post.

Is the paladin now a partner of the priestess? No.

Is the paladin now an ally of the priestess? No.

Is the paladin now a friend of the priestess? No.

These could be stretched to answer yes, but it is not necessary for a DM to do so here.