A Paladin's Fall From Righteousness?

[Halivar]

I would rule that the association/banter/friendliness is not a vilation of the paladin code. Since she was seduced, that's not a violation either. She's just weak.

But the lying thing. That indicates that she believed she had something to hide. It implies that she thinks she is doing something wrong; something she can't let her group know about.

I'd zap all her paladin abilites for that infraction right there. Attonement would come pretty easily, though. It's not like she cut down a halfling village, or anything.

 

[HeavyG]

If we want to get technical, willing association with an evil character isn't against the code as listed...
(snip)
It's definately something her deity would disapprove of, though

Ideally, wouldn't a paladin's code simply be a list of things her deity doesn't approve of, though ?

 

[Endur]

Well, another way of looking at this is from the classic Batman-Catwoman attraction, except this time it is the woman who is the lawful good "boy scout" and it is the guy who is the criminal in love with the "boy scout."

I wouldn't penalize the Paladin, unless it is obvious to her that the half-titan is evil and needs to be stopped.
If it is obvious, and she fails to act, then a penalty might be right.

 

[Snoweel]

I second that other guy who said that fornication isn't an Evil act in itself.

It depends on the deity's view of extramarital sex.

As for her lover - he hasn't married her, so she's a free agent. At least, she is in my book...

The lying isn't too good though.

 

[Celtavian]

I second that other guy who said that fornication isn't an Evil act in itself.

It depends on the deity's view of extramarital sex.

As for her lover - he hasn't married her, so she's a free agent. At least, she is in my book...

The lying isn't too good though.

Personally, I don't see a lawful good person taking sexual relations lightly and acting in a dishonest manner. Without getting too deeply into discussion on control of the sex drive, those religions which seek to limit the sexual interactions of their followers do so to maintain order due to the the many problems that arise in a sexually promiscuous society. I certainly hope I don't need to outline them.

I am wondering what the base alignment and nature of this Paladin's deity is. Is it a Neutral Good deity with Lawful Good Paladin followers or a true Lawful Good deity?

 

[Rhiannon]

I play Bronwyn and since SHARK has shared with me that he posted a thread about this situation, I thought that I should put in my two cents.

First, let me address some of the questions regarding the campaign in regards to religion and a code of behavior. for Paladins of this deity. In the campaign the deity that Bronwyn worships is a god of war and strength (among other things). This deity is worshipped by various human tribes and kingdoms (including Valloreans, but Bronwyn is not Vallorean). The deity appeals to martial societies and people. This deity has some differing tenants based on the home culture of the worshipper. Bronwyn's culture is a largely rural, feudal society, slightly more advanced than a barbarian tribal culture.

This society does not hold to a strict monogomous ethic, in or out of marriage (although members of the culture may) and this remains true of the deities worshippers. Sex before marriage is not frowned upon and would not be considered a breach of her Paladin code in her home culture.

SHARK left out a couple of salient points to Bronwyn's behavior with Ghandethar. Ghandethar defeated her in hand to hand combat and knocked her unconscious and carried her away rather than killing her outright (which he could have done easily as he is considerably more powerful than she). When she came to, he made it perfectly clear to her that she was his prisoner and that he would make her his slave and hunt down her party if she was uncooperative. Bronwyn at first did not respond to him but did not fight him either. As she did not fight he began to be kinder to her. Eventually they came to a mutal admiration of strength, wit and determination. At each turn she attempted to show him the virtues of her deity. She figured since she was in this position she should gain all the information she could to further the goals of her party. She did not give information that would jeopardize her party.

Ghandethar kept Bronwyn for several weeks, in which she came to respect and care for him as a person. In that time she did not witness him committing any evil acts (although he illuded to acts he would commit if it became necessary). For those of you who know about SHARK's campaign, detect evil is only usable if the spell is cast on the target that has immediate evil intent. A target just standing there buying groceries, would not show as evil or not.

Bronwyn was not engaged to Vandor at the time of this affair, although she was sexually involved with him. In fact, there was no discussion of a monogamous relationship between she and Vandor.

As for the lying or not telling the whole truth about her later encounter with Ghandethar. Bronwyn knew that if she had told the truth, the party would have immediately sought Ghandethar out and killed him. He came to Bronwyn alone and mostly unarmed because he wanted to see her.

Rhiannon

 

[pogre]

Well, it's certainly your game and the clarification about the code of conduct does help.

Still, does not lawful=loyal? I just see open relationships, particularly intimate ones, as counter to the lawful alignment.

Bronwyn knew that if she had told the truth, the party would have immediately sought Ghandethar out and killed him.

Because that would be the Lawful thing to do? (Honest question)

Your actions are good? but are they lawful?

Sounds like you guys are having a lot of fun in the campaign. Enjoy!

 

[green slime]

Hi Rhiannon!
Sounds like a great character in a marvellous campaign!

I do think the paladin shouldn't have told the lie, though. It would have been enough to say you had met with a friend in need. Without mentioning anyone by name. Preferably you could have told them the truth, and stated that if they proceeded to engage in combat with him you would be honour bound to protect him, as he had come to see you, outside the bounds of any conflict. That should have caused most of the party to pause for thought.

Of course there is the possibility that this is a test (by your deity, or by Ghandethar), to see how far your loyalties go, and just how much you will do to protect / shelter Ghandethar.

Apparently, Bronwyn would lie. Not just an indirect obfuscation of truth, but a lie. This has consequences.

 

[green slime]

Well, it's certainly your game and the clarification about the code of conduct does help.

Still, does not lawful=loyal? I just see open relationships, particularly intimate ones, as counter to the lawful alignment.



Because that would be the Lawful thing to do? (Honest question)

Your actions are good? but are they lawful?

Sounds like you guys are having a lot of fun in the campaign. Enjoy!

What has she done that was illoyal? If it is accepted by all parts, where is the disloyalty? I see nothing hindering open, caring relationships, even intimate ones within a lawful alignment. It would be a different matter once betrothed, of course. Its not like Bronwyn enganged in wild, promiscuous sex, with strangers for which she has no emotional attachment.

 

[Celtavian]

What has she done that was illoyal? If it is accepted by all parts, where is the disloyalty? I see nothing hindering open, caring relationships, even intimate ones within a lawful alignment. It would be a different matter once betrothed, of course. Its not like Bronwyn enganged in wild, promiscuous sex, with strangers for which she has no emotional attachment.

Look, for those with an understanding of the gravity of intimacy in regards to the possible consequences of said behavior, faith and restraint is more akin to a lawful and good alignment.

If you think that society instituted control of sexual behaviors because they are prudes, you are very sadly mistaken. Control of sexual behaviors by religion was very important to the civilization and socialization of the human race as a whole.

I know to some it simply seems like the right thing to do. But to folks like me who study the deeper effects of control of sexuality in a given society, its a foregone conclusion that a lawful good society would incorporate a monagamous or polygamous marital value into their society discouraging pre-marital relations and encouraging certain gender stereotypes for the maintenance of order with an emphasis on a mutually beneficial relationship between men and women. That is my take.



Bronwyn,

Thanks for the clarification. Given the way SHARK runs his campaign world, I can see nothing particularly wrong with your actions save for the dishonest way you are developing your relationship with Ghandethar. Might want to be a little more honest with your compatriots so that they do not also suffer while you are being deceived.