A problem with the miniatures industry.

[S'mon]

Equating finding minis for "fat and old people" to finding minis for queer or gender neutral folks is insulting. Fantasy gaming is usually aspirational, and most of us like to imagine our heroic characters are fit and, well, heroic.

(a) I sometimes want to play a fat and/or old PC. Not much out there.
(b) There are such things as NPCs, you know.

 

[Gradine]

Equating finding minis for "fat and old people" to finding minis for queer or gender neutral folks is insulting. Fantasy gaming is usually aspirational, and most of us like to imagine our heroic characters are fit and, well, heroic.

As a non-binary queer person, I will say that what I find insulting here is the implication that "fat" and "heroic" are antithetical concepts. There should be androgynous minis. And fat minis. And old minis. And non-able-bodied minis. None of these character concepts are mutually exclusive with what it means to be a hero (let alone a PC, which is itself not mutually exclusive to hero).

 

[BookBarbarian]

it's just a dad bod and not really fat.

Random and off topic, but this just made me look at my dad bod and think "not really fat" which was nice.

Wait this is on topic, people should be able to look at their body and still see a hero regardless of what that body looks like.

 

[Dire Bare]

As a non-binary queer person, I will say that what I find insulting here is the implication that "fat" and "heroic" are antithetical concepts. There should be androgynous minis. And fat minis. And old minis. And non-able-bodied minis. None of these character concepts are mutually exclusive with what it means to be a hero (let alone a PC, which is itself not mutually exclusive to hero).

I did not intend to fat-shame, but I can see that's how I came across. Sorry. I'm binary, but a fat dude myself. Can you be fat and heroic? Definitely, both IRL and in fantasy. Mirt the Moneylender comes to mind (well, more fat & mercenary), and good old Friar Tuck is often portrayed as a heavy guy. I'm sure there's more. But I still see a difference between the lack of "fat & old" minis and the lack of "gender neutral" minis. You can be fat and heroic, but being fat is not aspirational. Not that our fantasy characters always have to be aspirational, but most often that's the direction we take. Being fat is okay and you shouldn't be shamed for it, but you should also working to remove that condition, for health reasons. If you are non-binary or queer, that is perfectly healthy and isn't a condition to work at removing or changing and can easily be a part of an aspirational fantasy character.

I'd rather see miniature companies work on expanding their non-binary and gender neutral offerings before other things. But ultimately, it would also be nice to see a wider range of body types; fit, fat, skinny, and everything in between. Fantasy art (and sci-fi, and superheroes) does tend to focus on art portraying a narrow range of body types, in both illustration and in 3D miniatures . . . the more we can get away from that the better.

As I mentioned above, I'm a fat guy, although I'm not sure about the heroic part. I've actually played a fat & heroic character once (I usually don't), and the character's weight was a part of his backstory, how others treated him and how it made his new life as an active adventurer difficult at times. It helped me work through some of my RL issues with weight, to both accept my body without shame, but also to strive to lose weight and improve my health and fitness.

 

[Xenonnonex]

RPGs in general are very niche. How would you justify in business terms a miniature that will not be descriptive of the vast majority of people?

Miniatures are mass produced. The only way for this to market is to have it be expensive. And then no one will buy it.

 

[Xenonnonex]

All I'm saying is that maybe instead of the 943rd mini of a human fighter with C cup breasts, they diversify a bit to better represent the people who are playing the game. Not just gender neutral, but different body types

Are you buying a mini to represent yourself in game? Or are you buying a mini to represent who you are roleplaying as?

 

[Sacrosanct]

RPGs in general are very niche. How would you justify in business terms a miniature that will not be descriptive of the vast majority of people?

Miniatures are mass produced. The only way for this to market is to have it be expensive. And then no one will buy it.

A gender neutral or androgynous PC can still be descriptive of a PC, even if that PC is not gender neutral themselves. It’s not like gender neutral people have exceptionally large heads, or have three arms. Do all male PCs need to have facial hair or muscles? Do all female PCs have to have at least size C cup size?

for your second statement, this is also not accurate. As I said above, right now there are minis being produced of a human sized dragon wearing a chefs hat and holding a pizza. And one of a dire cabbage. Are you telling me that reaper is making those because of some high demand for them?

companies are already making a lot of human fighter minis despite there being thousands of them already made. It doesn’t take much effort to make a few of these minis gender neutral instead of needing to make human male fighter #8,335

 

[Ratskinner]

I seem to recall at least one fat mage in (I think) the Basic Set back in the day. So, maybe not all of our heroes are gender-hypertrophic.

 

[Xenonnonex]

A gender neutral or androgynous PC can still be descriptive of a PC, even if that PC is not gender neutral themselves. It’s not like gender neutral people have exceptionally large heads, or have three arms. Do all male PCs need to have facial hair or muscles? Do all female PCs have to have at least size C cup size?

for your second statement, this is also not accurate. As I said above, right now there are minis being produced of a human sized dragon wearing a chefs hat and holding a pizza. And one of a dire cabbage. Are you telling me that reaper is making those because of some high demand for them?

companies are already making a lot of human fighter minis despite there being thousands of them already made. It doesn’t take much effort to make a few of these minis gender neutral instead of needing to make human male fighter #8,335

An elf mini without the pointy ears would serve well for the gender neutral or androgynous PC.

With the dire cabbage and the pizza dungeon dragon mini obviously there is a high demand for them it reached enough backers. So who is not accurate?
You could go the Kickstarter route for adding on different body types.

These companies continue to produce those minis because they are the most profitable. Obviously they would not like to go bankrupt.

 

[Bardic Dave]

I did not intend to fat-shame, but I can see that's how I came across. Sorry. I'm binary, but a fat dude myself. Can you be fat and heroic? Definitely, both IRL and in fantasy. Mirt the Moneylender comes to mind (well, more fat & mercenary), and good old Friar Tuck is often portrayed as a heavy guy. I'm sure there's more. But I still see a difference between the lack of "fat & old" minis and the lack of "gender neutral" minis. You can be fat and heroic, but being fat is not aspirational. Not that our fantasy characters always have to be aspirational, but most often that's the direction we take. Being fat is okay and you shouldn't be shamed for it, but you should also working to remove that condition, for health reasons. If you are non-binary or queer, that is perfectly healthy and isn't a condition to work at removing or changing and can easily be a part of an aspirational fantasy character.

I'd rather see miniature companies work on expanding their non-binary and gender neutral offerings before other things. But ultimately, it would also be nice to see a wider range of body types; fit, fat, skinny, and everything in between. Fantasy art (and sci-fi, and superheroes) does tend to focus on art portraying a narrow range of body types, in both illustration and in 3D miniatures . . . the more we can get away from that the better.

As I mentioned above, I'm a fat guy, although I'm not sure about the heroic part. I've actually played a fat & heroic character once (I usually don't), and the character's weight was a part of his backstory, how others treated him and how it made his new life as an active adventurer difficult at times. It helped me work through some of my RL issues with weight, to both accept my body without shame, but also to strive to lose weight and improve my health and fitness.

Being queer or non-binary or gender neutral isn't aspirational either. Neither is being straight or cis. It's just what you are; it's not something you aspire to. The heroic archetypes you get to role-play are what's aspirational. Most people want to see themselves represented in the game. Heavy people deserve that privilege just as much as anyone else.