A query: Harm House rule users ONLY please

[pisceanmars]

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i gave harm a will save and otherwise left it the way it is, it was ridiculous without it. spell res. also applies as well.

 

[Kraedin]

I personally prefer my method. I moved harm to 9th level, and adjusted it so that it has the same effect on living and undead creatures. (Both are reduced to 1d4 hit points.) I then altered heal in the same way.

 

[Piratecat]

I'll slide this over to House Rules. Dash, normally when a thread is closed, opening a tangent thread is a big no-no. Next time something like that happens, please don't reopen the subject for a week or so. This is an interesting (and flame-free) topic, though, so I'll leave it open.

In addition, could you please make your signature smaller? It's pretty big!

 

[0-hr]

In my campaign, we just made Harm a "one full round" casting time (like a summoning spell) and left the rest as-is. This has balanced it out pretty well for us since it gives everyone on the battlemat a chance to interrupt before the Harm actually goes off.

Of course, we've also toned down Haste so you could not use your hasted partial action to Harm all in one go.

 

[Nappy MonkeyII]

Will save to "only" lose 1/2 on a successful save.

BTW, recently the now dead cleric cast harm on a yuan ti but the player wasn't paying enough attention and harmed the critter down from 3hp to 2hp. Hoot

 

[Al]

Will save to "only" lose 1/2 on a successful save.

BTW, recently the now dead cleric cast harm on a yuan ti but the player wasn't paying enough attention and harmed the critter down from 3hp to 2hp. Hoot

If he'd have Harmed it to 4hp, that would have been funnier...(incidentally, does a Maximised Harm automatically reduce the creature to 4hp? What about Empowered Harm?)

Back on topic...I don't think it is that good an idea, for the reasons listed above. Neither is there a *logical* reason why it would be divided: Charm, Hold and Dominate are all Enchantments, so it may be fair to say that it is easier to work Enchantments on humanoids, due to (...). With Harm, there is not necessarily such a rationale.

I use Will save for 6d8+level damage, treating Harm as a 'quasi-save-or-die' spell.

 

[mikebr99]

We changed Harm (and Heal) to do 10 hps per caster level damage (and healing for Heal)... no level cap... no save...

Mike

 

[Dash Dannigan]

I'll slide this over to House Rules. Dash, normally when a thread is closed, opening a tangent thread is a big no-no. Next time something like that happens, please don't reopen the subject for a week or so. This is an interesting (and flame-free) topic, though, so I'll leave it open.

In addition, could you please make your signature smaller? It's pretty big!

Oops, a tangent thread, sorry about that! Not only was my thread in the wrong section...*smacks forehead* Thanks for your help once again! I'm still pretty new to posting here but I'll learn if you smack me around enough!

<Kraedin> That's a very interesting solution there. Kinda of sweep the whole thing to ninth level and give it a wider bearth hmm? Sweet.

<Ki Ryn> That's a neat idea, a full-round casting. Time to play "Harm" Tag with the cleric eh? lol Makes it a bit more riskier for the cleric too (increases the residence time of the cleric in the front and oh so near all that lovely damage)!

Will saves seem to be of a solid opinion I see, also good. You know folks its really interesting to see the sheer creative variety others have come up with when dealing with Harm. Excellent replies.

<mike> do you still retain the down to 1d4 hp or do you allow straight damage as Al does?

I admit, the name alone: "Harm Person" sounds pretty lame. Ah well, when I thought of that separation I was considering the difference between a wild beast with only their natural armament and a humanoid who is equipped. Thus eliminating the whole Harm+Big-Beasty=Dead thing. A bit too contrived I suppose with no real good reason behind it but a little color and some balance.

 

[Victim]

I've been considering placing something like a 10 or so HP/level limit on both Harm and Heal, with Harm only reducing HP to 1d4 at a minimum. In my opinion, this both prevents an 11th level cleric from dropping a 400+ HP dragon, and also prevents creatures or characters with large HP totals instantly gaining tons of HP with a single action. If the party has worn a 600 HP monster down to a handful, then it strikes me as potentially somewhat imbalancing for it to regain full HP with a single partial action.

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

The rule I use is No Save, inflicts 5 HP per caster level, cannot drop HP below target's Hit Dice.

This may seem a lot less than the standard Harm, but it still does more damage than any other cleric spell.

I'd consider using 10 HP per level only with a Will save to half damage.

Heal works the same way (increasing HPs, obviously!).

I have a Greater Heal at 8th level, which heals 10 HP per level - so the cleric has the option of healing a single person (or being) a lot, or using mass heal.
I have no current plans to introduce a Greater Harm, though - if I was going to do that, I may as well use the standard version of Harm for the majority of creatures.