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Blog (A5E) A Quick Look At Skills

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
In core 5E no. You use one ability and one skill like it says in the rules on ability checks.

In A5E dunno, nobody’s seen the rules yet, but I would guess no.
I think this is pretty much the gist of why it's different. In 5e tgey made a big show about how it was an ability check and you applied the ability score mod relevant to what/how you were doing it... then they wrote everything suggesting that skills only ever had one ability and put a cherry on top of that schizophrenia by adding the already mentioned "VARIANT: skills with different abilities" for the critical mechanic needed to actually have:"ability checks".

I'm on my phone right now but seem to remember reading that the ability score wont be mentioned alongside the skill but specializations would be listed. Take the proficiency bonus (or whatever -- if proficient)add your expertise die as relevant and add the ability mod the GM agrees or outright states fits best seems likely
 

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Caliburn101

Explorer
We've been going round and round on the name for that one, with a list of suggestions (LK is the old 3.x name; PF2E calls it Society). But yes, your background does give you skill proficiencies.
@Morrus Why not call it Traveller's Savvy and have it come into play similarly to the way the Rangers terrain skills changes - after a period of familiarisation. Initially rolls against this skill would avoid day to day gaffs in local customs and norms, and later allow mastery of the norms (including enough of the local language to get by) with rolls reserved for more unusual interaction such as audiences with potentates or involvement in cultural or religious ceremonies unique to the area.
 

Starfox

Adventurer
About expertise dice. What these do is they introduce a mild bell curve (atcually a flattened pyramid curve with one small expertise die) and I like bell/pyramid curves. But adding them to a d20 system seems to be outside the d20 paradigm. To me, expertise dice feel half-assed. Are you sure what you want is not to go to a system that is entirely about random distribution curves? Like 2d10 instead of d20? I can see how the d20 is a sacred cow, but I am not sure expertise dice is the cure. Then again, I have not played with expertise dice. What I have played with is the Wild Die of Savage Worlds, and that works spectacularly well.

I also loathe the Earthdawn phenomenon where you could not roll until you know of all the modifiers because the modifiers changed what kind of dice you should roll. That does seem nopt to be the case here, but I thought it worth mentioning as an example to avoid.

Again, these are simple viewpoints, not demands.
 



Faolyn

Hero
About expertise dice. What these do is they introduce a mild bell curve (atcually a flattened pyramid curve with one small expertise die) and I like bell/pyramid curves. But adding them to a d20 system seems to be outside the d20 paradigm. To me, expertise dice feel half-assed. Are you sure what you want is not to go to a system that is entirely about random distribution curves? Like 2d10 instead of d20? I can see how the d20 is a sacred cow, but I am not sure expertise dice is the cure. Then again, I have not played with expertise dice. What I have played with is the Wild Die of Savage Worlds, and that works spectacularly well.

I also loathe the Earthdawn phenomenon where you could not roll until you know of all the modifiers because the modifiers changed what kind of dice you should roll. That does seem nopt to be the case here, but I thought it worth mentioning as an example to avoid.

Again, these are simple viewpoints, not demands.

OK, now the actual post.

I once suggested 2d10 on reddit and got downvoted to oblivion. I personally kind of like the idea, since even a teensy curve is better than total randomness. The only real issue that would need to be addressed is critical hits, which would be bit rarer. As crits are especially useful to paladins and rogues, this could possibly be addressed entirely in a feat (perhaps one with a higher-level prerequisite) that would allow anyone to increase their crit range by 1.

The expertise die, however, is not really "half-assed." Something like it is already used in D&D: guidance, resistance, and bless already grant an additional d4, as do House abilities in Eberron. Something akin to the expertise die was suggested, IIRC, in an older UA, although I can't remember which one or how it was implemented.

The expertise die isn't one where you can't roll until you know the modifiers because the modifier is simple enough that you could record it on your sheet. At worst, you have a case where you would make your roll and half an hour later suddenly exclaim, "Dammnit, I had a d6 expertise die, not a d4." Which is no different than "Dammit, I had a +4, not a +2."
 

Faolyn

Hero
The expertise die, however, is not really "half-assed." Something like it is already used in D&D: guidance, resistance, and bless already grant an additional d4, as do House abilities in Eberron. Something akin to the expertise die was suggested, IIRC, in an older UA, although I can't remember which one or how it was implemented.

Quoting myself here: Actually, that's a question. I'm assuming that if you have a d4 expertise die in something, and someone casts guidance or resistance on you, you would actually roll +2d4, not a d6, because guidance isn't expertise, it's magical enhancement. Right?
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Quoting myself here: Actually, that's a question. I'm assuming that if you have a d4 expertise die in something, and someone casts guidance or resistance on you, you would actually roll +2d4, not a d6, because guidance isn't expertise, it's magical enhancement. Right?
Well, O5E guidance isn't an expertise die.
 


tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Now I'm curious what guidance might look like :D

OK, now the actual post.

I once suggested 2d10 on reddit and got downvoted to oblivion. I personally kind of like the idea, since even a teensy curve is better than total randomness. The only real issue that would need to be addressed is critical hits, which would be bit rarer. As crits are especially useful to paladins and rogues, this could possibly be addressed entirely in a feat (perhaps one with a higher-level prerequisite) that would allow anyone to increase their crit range by 1.

The expertise die, however, is not really "half-assed." Something like it is already used in D&D: guidance, resistance, and bless already grant an additional d4, as do House abilities in Eberron. Something akin to the expertise die was suggested, IIRC, in an older UA, although I can't remember which one or how it was implemented.

The expertise die isn't one where you can't roll until you know the modifiers because the modifier is simple enough that you could record it on your sheet. At worst, you have a case where you would make your roll and half an hour later suddenly exclaim, "Dammnit, I had a d6 expertise die, not a d4." Which is no different than "Dammit, I had a +4, not a +2."
I've played in games that tried 2d10 as well as dice pool games like shadowrun fate & modiphius' 2d20 systems & the 2d10 winds up feeling particularly bad as you have bob with two same colored dice who either slows the game rolling one by one or always seems to roll high low but never low high, meanwhile everyone else has the added frustration of "if only I had said blue was tens instead of green" or whatever on top of the chance for bad rolls. A dice pool is good, but the system needs to be designed for it & expertise dice are a nice middle ground between 1d20+mods & the kind of fluid opposed rolls you tend to see with combat in dice pool systems
 

leonardozg

Because I'm the DM
the 2d10 winds up feeling particularly bad as you have bob with two same colored dice who either slows the game rolling one by one or always seems to roll high low but never low high, meanwhile everyone else has the added frustration of "if only I had said blue was tens instead of green" or whatever on top of the chance for bad rolls
Isn't it d100 or d%?
 
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tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Yeah--except that if you're rolling 2d10 and adding them, it doesn't matter if one is the tens or the ones.
Oh. I'm not sure how that would play out but can't imagine anything
1d20 avg 10.5
2d10 avg 5.5&5.5
At this hour, after that drink... satistically they are going to be pretty similar I think
 


Horwath

Hero
Oh. I'm not sure how that would play out but can't imagine anything
1d20 avg 10.5
2d10 avg 5.5&5.5
At this hour, after that drink... satistically they are going to be pretty similar I think
that is why you go with 3d6.
it gives a true bell curve not a chevron like 2d10 and average is 10,5 as with 1d20.

and I would also like to keep default 5E expertise instead of fiddling with 1d4/1d6/1d8 extra dice.
 

Starfox

Adventurer
An expertise die creates a truncated pyramid distribution that makes extremely high and low results less likely (2, 3, 4, 22, 23, 24). I agree that the end distribution of 1d20 is troublesome and you do get around that problem here. I might like it if I try it.

My personal homebrew uses one exploding d6 MINUS another exploding d6 (from Feng Shui). This has the advantage that the median result is zero, so two values in the same range can be directly compared to one another.
 

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