A religious system or pantheon for a setting

[Gilladian]

I've been mulling over a new campaign setting:
http://vishteercampaign.pbworks.com/w/page/87699943/Rule of the Wizards

and am now trying to come up with a religion/pantheon for this world.

I had written this originally:
Religion: this is a world where the gods are far-off and distant, playing little role beyond granting spells to their followers. None are certain that the gods are anything more than forces of nature, sources of energy, etc... except that angels and demons DO exist, and all swear that they serve one of the Gods, so they must exist... There are three Deities who each have two faces - male and female, and by ancient repute, a third genderless or neutral form which is rarely named or worshipped in the current day. These Gods are named Xanohr/Xaneth (good god/goddess), Amis/Ameyn (neutral god/goddess), and Cetyx/Cetari (evil god/goddess). Each deity or pair of deities (depending on which branch of religion you follow) has many followers, angels or demons depending on their nature.

But later I had an idea that instead of an alignment-based system of humanoid gods, I might instead go with something different, and instead choose four or six of the most powerful animal-monsters of DnD (dragon, sphinx, phoenix, etc...) and make one of each of them a god. Not the standard Tiamat and Bahamut dragons, for example, but something more removed from humanity, more alien. And at that point, I might make them more "interactive" than I had originally conceived.

But I'm a bit torn, and maybe there are better ideas out there? What can you suggest? Help me choose, or give me another option!

 

[Celebrim]

Well, first, if you have distant deities that are not knowable and active knowable intermediaries, almost certainly you will have those intermediaries worshiped in some form as at the least intercessors. So in point of fact, you won't have a world that views religion in the way you seem to think. Instead, they'll see the world as being a celestial bureaucracy with distant unapproachable sovereign gods worshiped and served by a great number of more accessible and immediate small gods. You'll actually end up with a highly polytheistic religion in terms of its rites and practices, with all sorts of rituals around summoning up the right servitors and making bargains to communicate up the chain of celestial (or infernal) being.

Secondly, this is at a certain level a matter of preference. I'm not sure what you mean by "better ideas". What really matters is, "What stories do you wish to tell about man's relationship with the divine?" Probably a lot of that will depend upon your own beliefs regarding your actual relationship with the divine, as they get filtered to a fantasy setting. You can tell a lot about how a person conceives the divine by what they create as a fantasy of the divine if you know where to look. Consider the differences between say Charles Stross and JRR Tolkien, or Gene Wolfe and Arthur C Clark. So at that level, I can hardly consider anything more deeply personal and introspective than the mythology a fantasist creates for their setting. I'm not going to try to tell you what to do. However, I will say that on the surface, either of your choices is fine and creative and could serve you well depending on what you intend to do with it.

I'd be glad to help you flesh out either setting in a sensible way if I had any clue what theological terrain you wanted to explore.

 

[Samloyal23]

If you are going to have a deity with multiple aspects gender and alignment are only some of the possible factors. Look at the Trimurti of Hinduism. You can have single god with aspects representing Creation/Preservation/Destruction, or some other set ideals or states of being. You can have a goddess with Maiden/Mother/Crone aspects. You can have a single deity who can represent Good/Neutrality/Evil in different situations.

Take a Moon deity for example. Maybe each phase of the Moon is a different aspect with a different alignment and different powers. Each phase would attract different types of followers. So you could have a Full Moon god of the hunt and wild beasts who is revered by shape-changers, a Gibbous Moon god who represents madness and inspiration who is revered by poets and artists, a Half Moon goddess/god who is a hermaphrodite revered by those who seek balance and enlightenment, a Crescent Moon goddess of fertility, cattle, and wealth, and a New Moon goddess of secrets, lies, thievery, and witchcraft. All of these being aspects of one deity they would each have an altar in the Temple of the Moon.

 

[Samloyal23]

If you took my Moon deity as an example and wanted to add a monster aspect, you could have different monsters being sacred to different aspects. So Werecreatures are sacred to the Full Moon, Owlbears to the Gibbous Moon, a Sphynx to the Half Moon, a Minotaur to the Crescent Moon, and a Shadow to the New Moon...

 

[Gilladian]

Excellent points, Celebrim - I do sort of like the idea of a celestial bureaucracy! This world is all about war and power and the insane grasping after it to the point of madness and beyond. The major powers of the world are the wizards and/or clerics who dominate each city, who control the stones of power, who constantly fight for more stones, more power, and bring upon themselves only more corruption and eventual failure in madness, only to be replaced by another who falls into the same trap; or if they don't, there's only one escape - to destroy the source of power, become powerless, and fall under the rule of another madman.

I have no religious views to explore - that's why I find this creation of pantheons so complex and challenging. I'm a secular humanist in "real life"...

 

[Gilladian]

If you are going to have a deity with multiple aspects gender and alignment are only some of the possible factors. Look at the Trimurti of Hinduism. You can have single god with aspects representing Creation/Preservation/Destruction, or some other set ideals or states of being. You can have a goddess with Maiden/Mother/Crone aspects. You can have a single deity who can represent Good/Neutrality/Evil in different situations.

Take a Moon deity for example. Maybe each phase of the Moon is a different aspect with a different alignment and different powers. Each phase would attract different types of followers. So you could have a Full Moon god of the hunt and wild beasts who is revered by shape-changers, a Gibbous Moon god who represents madness and inspiration who is revered by poets and artists, a Half Moon goddess/god who is a hermaphrodite revered by those who seek balance and enlightenment, a Crescent Moon goddess of fertility, cattle, and wealth, and a New Moon goddess of secrets, lies, thievery, and witchcraft. All of these being aspects of one deity they would each have an altar in the Temple of the Moon.

This is really interesting! I like the idea of the various forms and areas of control, but all coming back to one deity in the end. Yet, how would this fit into my idea that the stones of power which rained down upon the world centuries ago were sent by the gods? Would a god attempt self-destruction, immolation? Or at least, the corruption of his/her own followers? Possibly there's some schizophrenia here (or an alternate source/reason for the power stones raining down).

 

[Samloyal23]

Explore a non-theistic religion based on a force or philosophy. I came up with the idea of a cult that believes Civilization is a kind of force of nature, that the universe created life so that greater levels of order and sophistication could be developed. They revered Sigil, the City of Doors, as an example of the process of civilization being spread through the Multiverse. They were on a continual quest for better social systems and policies to introduce to cities across the planes and fought against illiteracy and barbarism.

Buddhism, at its essence, is atheistic. It is a philosophy of life in pursuit of enlightenment and the elimination of suffering.

You could make the self-help movement into a religion based on achieving personal excellence or serenity or whatever else a culture valued.

 

[Samloyal23]

The lunar phase that incites madness could spawn a plethora of bad ideas. But it could also lead to startling discoveries and visions...

 

[Celebrim]

I have no religious views to explore - that's why I find this creation of pantheons so complex and challenging. I'm a secular humanist in "real life"...

Permit me a bit of hubris to say, I'd already figured that out. However, that is itself a religious view to explore, and if I may say so, one worth exploring, and which - whether you knew it or not - you were already exploring in certain aspects of how you viewed your fantasy world.

Excellent points, Celebrim - I do sort of like the idea of a celestial bureaucracy! This world is all about war and power and the insane grasping after it to the point of madness and beyond.

The major powers of the world are the wizards and/or clerics who dominate each city, who control the stones of power, who constantly fight for more stones, more power, and bring upon themselves only more corruption and eventual failure in madness, only to be replaced by another who falls into the same trap; or if they don't, there's only one escape - to destroy the source of power, become powerless, and fall under the rule of another madman.

Cool. Ok, so what's the relationship you want the divine to have to that? Do they endorse it? Are they tacitly supporting it? Is this all some big game they are playing with people? Or on the contrary, does this state of affairs grieve them? Are they trying to change it? Or have they just given up, because utterly jaded and bitter, because no one listens to them and they lack the power to compel people to do so? Or on the contrary, do they just not care, being caught up in their own affairs so distant and alien from mankind that the problems of humanity (and its close equivalents) don't concern them much at all?

 

[Gilladian]

Permit me a bit of hubris to say, I'd already figured that out. However, that is itself a religious view to explore, and if I may say so, one worth exploring, and which - whether you knew it or not - you were already exploring in certain aspects of how you viewed your fantasy world.







Cool. Ok, so what's the relationship you want the divine to have to that? Do they endorse it? Are they tacitly supporting it? Is this all some big game they are playing with people? Or on the contrary, does this state of affairs grieve them? Are they trying to change it? Or have they just given up, because utterly jaded and bitter, because no one listens to them and they lack the power to compel people to do so? Or on the contrary, do they just not care, being caught up in their own affairs so distant and alien from mankind that the problems of humanity (and its close equivalents) don't concern them much at all?

LOL, I didn't realize my views were quite THAT transparent! Although, I guess we've been reading each other's posts for a decade or more...

Hmmm... if the gods were the original source of the meteors that rained down on the world, and brought on the warring city-state environment, they either did it deliberately and are delighting in the turmoil, or SOME of them did it deliberately, leaving the non-participant gods either appalled or angry (perhaps both), OR they are so far removed from humanity that they barely notice what they did - probably as a side effect of their actions on some other matter. I think I really prefer the middle ground, but the far-removed idea could be good, too, coupled with a celestial bureaucracy - if the gods don't really notice/care, but their minions and followers either delight in or despair of what has gone on since then.

So I think what I want is a cluster of gods or followers of gods (ie demons/devils) who are pleased with the current situation and enjoy meddling with it, and another cluster of gods or their followers (ie angels) who are despairing of the current situation and are working to try to find ways to mitigate it. And there could be a third group who are neutral/indifferent.

In each city, the rulership will vary considerably - some are ruled by wizards, a few by clerics, and a few by other classes/beings. I suggested that one city's ruler was a dragon, another a djinn, and a third a powerful undead (vampire or lich, I haven't firmed it up in my head). The wizards might include a pact warlock, but mostly are going to be straight book-scholar power-hungry types. Mostly they ignore the divine, seeing it as having not much impact on their day-to-day actions. The cities with divine leaders will of course be very different. I'm sure one will be a totalitarian theocratic state, but not all.

This is a great discussion! I'm getting a lot of good out of it.