A sacred cow to slay: starting at 1st level

[TheAuldGrump]

Plus, the low levels are often my favorites to run/play.

Oh oh, it's an orc with a great axe... we could be in trouble, guys.

The Auld Grump, hey! He had a pie!

 

[CleverNickName]

Actually, I read a suggestion that D&D Next should have a starter set and a core rulebook somewhere, with the starter set really only supporting levels 1 through 3 and rulebook supporting most of the levels thereafter (with a possible supplement for epic rules). In theory, the core rulebook could provide rules for starting at level 4, 5, or whatever is generally agreed to be the beginning of the "okay, your heroes aren't just a bunch of idiots with swords anymore" stage.

This is exactly what they did with the Basic, Expert, Companion, and Masters Rules boxed sets. I loved it then, and I would love to see it again in the new edition.

 

[Mark CMG]

My solution? I like that first level for PCs represents struggling adventurers, so I prefer to ensure that typical NPCs are not their equal. I think the 3.XE manner of NPC classes and levels was interesting but ultimately lessened the portrayal of playing a PC as the growth of a hero from humble beginnings. I think the concepts developed in 3.XE can still be applied to "named" NPCs and Villains, but having a stock of lesser NPCs who don't experience advancement of any kind keeps the focus on PCs as special, IMO. Of course, part of the fun in-game is players (even when their PCs reach higher levels) not knowing if any given NPC is a "named" NPC or Villain or maybe just a blacksmith who is a little too full of himself and happens to own a sword, or what have you.

 

[trancejeremy]

The funny thing is, in the old days, 1st level was considered too powerful to start as, so they introduced optional 0 level rules.

 

[ppaladin123]

Ours goes to 11?

 

[Zaukrie]

If they eliminate the first level, doesn't that make 2nd level first level?

I am not really sure I understand the concept. Don't people start their games wherever they want?

 

[RHGreen]

The idea, I believe, is that we start too powerful (as 1st level characters). That we should, say, start at level 5 as standard, but if we want to start at 1st (which would be a farmer with a stick) we could. Level 5, our normal PC starting power level, would have a larger power buffer between it and the pointless peasant scum.

It would mean you could play gritty and simple, or powerful and heroic. Both should be happy.

The problem is a lot of players want to start at 1st level AND be powerful. Meaning gritty simple players are screwed and all because those heroic players can't get it round their noodles that they can start at a higher level and screw the rest of us who might like some 0 to hero.

 

[Lanefan]

Because in 1-2-3E (cant speak for 4E), too much granularity is crammed into 0th thru 1st level. Theres not enough to differentiate between, say: the utterly helpless / the pathetic peasant / the burly farmer / the militia man / the bandit / the veteran soldier.

I don't get this.

Are you suggesting that 1st level should instead be split into several sub-levels such that one can mechanically differentiate between the above? (thus meaning the current 1st level becomes about 4th)

Or are you suggesting the core game shouldn't support playing of not-yet-heroic types?

Lan-"some of us are 10th level but you wouldn't want to call us heroes"-efan

 

[mmadsen]

Because in 1-2-3E (cant speak for 4E), too much granularity is crammed into 0th thru 1st level.

Definitely. In fact, 3E was more or less designed with first level as fourth level, as far as the skill system was concerned. Also, many of the class abilities were front-loaded as if that first level comprised three or four levels, which affected multi-classing.

I think the real issue is hit dice. Having just one hit die makes you quite mortal, and going up to two hit dice is probably far more important than all the other boosts from reaching second level combined. Starting with four hit dice would have seemed crazy back in the 3E days.

Now? Not so much.

 

[jodyjohnson]

!e DMG p12.

You don't have to start experienced players at level 1. Or even new players if the situation warrants.