Rebuttal posted by Umbran
So, let's see.
Dwarves originally woke the thing up through their greed, and you have a number of other reasons to hold grudges against dwarves.
At this time, that which you love most in the world, everything you think of as right and good and beautiful, is reduced to one little pocket of what you'd call civilization. That beast can reduce that pocket to cinders, and is five minutes away, and just woken up again. In addition, the beast has claimed the life of one of the few people in the world you can legitimately see as a respected equal.
And what do you know - one of those darned dwarves was involved again, and he comes knocking on your door, asking for succor from the very same beast - posssibly giving it a reason to come to Lothlorien!
Nah, he's got no reason to be cheesed off. No reason at all.
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Comments by Edena_of_Neith
Actually, that's a very good rebuttal, and the point is well taken.
I thought, up until recently, that Celeborn was stating he would have denied entrance to the entire party ... now I think, he was referring specifically to Gimli, and on that assumption I will make my comments.
Everyone, including Gandalf, if I remember correctly, refers to the dwarven greed, for they dug too deeply and too deep, and far under Caradhras they awoke the balrog.
Well, there is no doubt that the dwarves of Khazad-Dum were greedy - most dwarves in Middle Earth are, and the 7 Rings did not help matters.
I could add something further to that greed: arrogance.
Khazad-Dum survived the assault of Sauron that destroyed Eriador in the Second Age.
It survived the Dark Years.
It outlasted Sauron himself, or so the dwarves thought, after the Last Alliance.
When Rivendell was besieged by Angmar and Rhudaur, the dwarves were safe in their underground home.
When Cardolan and Arthedain were invaded in 1409 by Angmar and Rhudaur, and Eriador went up in flames, Khazad-Dum was spared.
When Arthedain finally fell, and Angmar was wiped out, Khazad-Dum endured.
The dwarves must have thought themselves invincible.
They must have thought anything possible, and any invader repulsable.
They never considered that the danger might lay right under their homes, until they woke it up.
So yeah, I will add arrogance to greed, and make Celeborn's case stronger.
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I will further strengthen Umbran's rebuttal, and make a better case for Celeborn's anger.
Nimrodel was GREATLY beloved by the people of what was then called Laurelindorian, and King Amroth was very popular.
In peace and beauty Nimrodel dwelt in a great Talan high in the trees of northern Laurelindorian, and with her dwelt a great part of the people of that land, for the River Nimrodel was a source of joy to them all (remember that elves, in Tolkien's world, hear the echoe of the Music of Creation in water.)
When news of the balrog came, there was panic and wholesale flight, and all of northern Laurelindorian was permanently abandoned.
Amroth and Nimrodel must have advocated that everyone leave - it is a wonder that they all did not go.
Amroth and Nimrodel did go, and both died, and when this news came back to Laurelindorian, the elves were so stricken they weep about it today, a thousand years later.
And yes, Laurelindorian became an isolated pocket of what the elves would call Civilization, in a world of enemies.
As the power of Gondor waned, it's protection over the Vales of Anduin vanished.
Wave after wave of peoples from the east assailed the friendly folk of Anduin, until few remained, and the Eothed (ancestors of the Rohirrim) fled north past the Carrock to get away from the war and the terror.
Dul Guldur arose in the east, and Greenwood was poisoned into Mirkwood, while in the west orcs increased in the Misty Mountains and attacked the dwarves.
Finally, Gondor's presense southward was utterly gone, and savage men held all the lands east of Anduin.
Then the dwarves awoke the balrog, and fled through Dimril Dale, and now all the lands around Laurelindorian were waste, or filled with enemies.
Only the journey of Eorl (which Galadriel aided) and his men, brought a measure of peace - to Laurelindorian's south - but the Rohirrim were ever fearful of the elves, and had no converse with them of any sort. Later, they came to fear them very greatly.
So yes indeed, here is a land of beauty and peace, even without Narya - but with Narya and Galadriel to wield that Ring, Laurelindorian becomes a piece of the Golden Past, an echo of the beauty and light of the Undying Lands of the West.
And yes, the balrog was five minutes away from the northern border of Laurelindorian (if that long!), and yes, it had the power to reduce Laurelindorian to ashes.
But now, I wish to make some points that do not support Umbran's rebuttal of my post:
Galadriel stepped in, and she was the equal to the balrog: please remember that just because you do not see Galadriel wearing armor, or carrying a sword and bow, or carrying a staff, means nothing concerning her capacity to defend Laurelindorian from that balrog.
What matters is Galadriel's Stature.
Just how great is Galadriel's Stature?
I am not sure.
However, it is great enough that Galadriel can contest with Sauron himself (for he often desired to view her realm, and she turned his Eye away), and win - even if it was a defensive action only and aided by Narya.
It is the Stature of the last surviving child of Finarfin to walk Middle Earth, 10,000 years of age.
Galadriel's Stature is shown eloquently by Peter Jackson when she manifests it for Frodo, perhaps half involuntarily - her response triggered by Frodo's offer of the One Ring.
I believe Galadriel WAS the reason the balrog did not come out right then and there, and raze Laurelindorian to the ground - certainly, it hated elves, and it had reason to want revenge against all elves, and it had a VERY bad disposition in general, to understate matters.
I think the balrog was intimidated by Galadriel, and decided not to risk battle with her.
Certainly, the dwarven army that won the Battle of Dimril Dale (the Dwarven-Orc Wars in which half the dwarves were killed, and Dain slew Azog) did not intimidate the balrog - it looked right at Dain as he peeked into East Gate, and it laughed in his face!
This is not a counter-rebuttal to Umbran - Umbran could comment that it supports his case further.
Merely commentary on the situation.
However ...
Now I have some counter-rebuttals for Umbran.
First of all, Gimli came seeking succor, but from orcs, not the balrog. That, however, is a very minor point.
Celeborn knew of the Fellowship and their mission.
Thus, he knew that the fate of Middle Earth, was in the hands of that Fellowship and Frodo.
The fate of HIS people, were in the hands of that Fellowship and Frodo.
Why?
The people of Lothlorien were trapped.
They could not go east, for Sauron held all those lands.
They could not go west (or, effectively, north,) for the Misty Mountains blocked the way, and orcs held those heights.
They could not go south and west, for Saruman blocked the way.
They could go straight south, and hope Gondor could shield them until they could fly over the Sea.
However, the total evacuation of Lothlorien would have taken time.
Time, is not something they had.
Even had they left - all of them - right after Frodo and the Fellowship, there is some question as to whether they could have gotten past Minas Tirith to the safety of Lebinnin before the Morgul Host came forth.
And, of course, the Haradrim were assailing the coasts in force, so the evacuation would have been made that much harder.
But that is not the real point either.
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The POINT is, if Sauron regained the One Ring, it was over for Lothlorien, Galadriel or no Galadriel.
No chance to flee.
No hope of victory in combat.
No hope, to defend their land from the coming assault.
Certainly, no hope of mercy or quarter from Sauron.
Therefore, it was INCUMBENT upon Celeborn to aid the Fellowship, anyway he could.
ALL other considerations, were secondary.
Galadriel, understood this very well, and in everything she said and did, she worked to aid the Fellowship, aid Frodo, strengthen Frodo, and give the best council she could to Frodo and Fellowship.
However, Celeborn did NOT understand.
He allowed his border guard to waylay the Fellowship in an unfriendly matter, and to harass Gimli as a potential enemy.
He created a situation where - if Aragorn had not interfered - Gimli might have been KILLED. (Look at the pertinent part of the book, where Gimli became so infuriated he put hand to axe, and tell me I'm wrong!)
IF Gimli had been killed, that would have GREATLY harmed the effort to destroy the One Ring, for it would have brought grief, anger, and hostility to everyone in the Fellowship, and it would have justified with mockery the words of Boromir prior to their arrival in Lothlorien (I would rather walk through a path of spears, said he.)
EVERYONE in the Fellowship would have looked upon the elves with eyes clouded by the memory of Gimli's death - even Legolas, Aragorn, and Frodo would have had their perceptions altered.
Boromir would have looked upon the elves with hatred.
Pippin, Merry, and Sam would have looked upon them with fear and anger.
Legolas, Aragorn, and Frodo would have been traumatized, and at a loss for words.
It is likely Frodo would have closed his mind to the words of Galadriel.
It is likely he would not have looked into the Mirror.
It is possible no Gifts would have been given, and more likely yet that many in the Fellowship would not have desired Gifts.
Galadriel could not have undone the damage.
Murder, is not something you can just undo.
So, Frodo leaves Lothlorien WITHOUT the Phial of Galadriel - guess what happens at Cirith Ungol?
Frodo, leaves confused and hurt, less able than ever before to make the crucial decision to go alone to Mordor - which he must make to have any real chance to succeed.
Boromir, infuriated, is far less willing to work with Aragorn (the one who led them to Lothlorien) and he may well have support from the hobbits, and there is strife and anger within the Fellowship.
Legolas and Boromir do not get along at ALL, and Legolas is distracted from doing his job, because he must carry on a fight with Boromir.
But that's not the worst of it.
The WORST of it is that the One Ring is GREATLY empowered to corrupt EVERYONE in the Fellowship, including Sam and Frodo.
Callous acts (such as saying: it was stupid Gimli's fault he got killed, and we'll just let bygones be bygones - good riddance to the idiot!) strengthen the One Ring.
Allowing acts of murder to pass before your eyes, and doing nothing to bring about justice - especially when the deceased was your FRIEND, and the deceased fought to SAVE YOUR LIFE, darkens your mind and soul. And those who are darkened of mind and soul, are more vulnerable to the temptation of the One Ring.
Simply the EXPERIENCE of watching Gimli be shot down, and the trauma and horror of it - the sadness and subsequent grief - all of these things strengthen the power of the One Ring to corrupt the bearer.
So, now the One Ring has a crucial foothold on everyone in the Fellowship.
Aragorn, who withstood the Ring in the book, might not have been able to do so in this situation.
Boromir, would have collapsed much faster, if not immediately.
Legolas, with his justifying of the acts of the elves, would have brought hatred and anger against him from many in the Fellowship, and the Ring's pull on him would have been enhanced.
Merry and Pippin would have gone from revering elves to being terrified of them, and then being repulsed by them ... their altruism would have failed, and with that would have gone much of their strength to resist the One Ring.
Frodo would have seen the brutal murder of his friend by those he trusted.
He would have seen the Fellowship turn and look the other way, afterwards.
Grief and sorrow would have given way to futile anger, then cynicism, and his friendship with Aragorn and Legolas would have collapsed.
Certainly, he would have been more susceptible to the words of Boromir afterwards.
His heart darkened by the murder of Gimli, Frodo would have been crucially weakened, his Stature diminished (and diminished much further because he allowed that murder to pass, and did not seek justice for it, choosing expediency instead), and his capacity to resist the One Ring would have greatly lessened.
Thus, the mission to destroy the Ring would have failed.
Sauron would have taken back what was his.
Celeborn's people would have been massacred (the lucky ones) and sent to enjoy the gloom of the Halls of Mandos (the unlucky ones would have been taken alive as thralls of Sauron.)
Remember, this is TOLKIEN we are talking about, not D&D.
Expediency, has MUCH LESS of a place in Tolkien (killing Gollum would have been expedient.)
Mercy, charity, kindness, were very big matters in Middle Earth.
But what did Celeborn do?
He had to give way to anger and fear.
Anger and fear, SAURON'S weapons!
Anger and fear, when the FATE OF MIDDLE EARTH came running into his land, in the form of Frodo and his Fellowship.
Anger and fear, that almost led to the total destruction of Middle Earth and the massacre of ALL the elves who lived therein.
There was NO place for anger and fear in Celeborn's heart.
Anger and fear were beneath him, as a noble elf from the great Realm of Doriath, and Lord of Lothlorien.
It was his job and duty to put aside the weapons of the Enemy, and embrace those concepts that ultimately saved everyone - mercy, charity, kindness, forgiveness, and good deeds.
Fortunately for Celeborn, Galadriel was there to correct him.
It IS fortunate for Celeborn.
Wasn't the destruction of Doriath ENOUGH for Celeborn, or did he truly wish to see his people massacred a second time?
That is my counter-rebuttal to Umbran.
Heh. Note that you can sense the anger in my words.
But that anger, is NOT directed at Umbran!!
That anger, is directed at that idiot Celeborn.
Edena_of_Neith