A simple fix to balance fighters vs. casters ?
- Thread starter Jon_Dahl
- Start date
kahn_bloodbane
First Post
wow beautiful and well written post arrowhawk! :O in the end you did clarify everything, going to the very concept of it. it makes no sense 'balance' a roleplaying game, it is not a math game, it is not a chess game, it's not something that can be defined with pure mathematics. a roleplaying game is basically another world and, reality.. isn't balanced, at all (so aren't my campaigns either the heroes doens't always win, at all.). mages? well they are scary, a well prepared mage can do virtually everything, and the only protection against them is.. more magic, whathever is in form of magic items, or another mage, or a cleric, or.. smarts!
you know that detect invisibility doesn't find people hidden in shadows? and also true seeing can't pierce trought a nonmagical disguise?... if I slap on my face a pair of fake mustaches... hey it's there, it's real, it's not an illusion, and a thunderstone can DEAFEN?.. (deaf! now you got 50% of failing a spell requiring verbal components..), a blinded mage for example cannot target people with spells..
in the end, it's all a matter of.. brains! (mmm brains..says the homer-illithid) if you know your enemy you can fight him effectively, mages and clerics are a reality in D&D world, no need of balancing, you just need to, bother with considering them in the big picture and tailor situation keeping them in count..
also with npcs! they themselves doesn't have limitless resources, if they kidnap a baron's daughter they wil keep in count that the baron might hire someone to rescue her, they surely know how much money the baron has (else why kidnapping the daugher?) and more or less can understand what kind of theat they can be put against.. again use smarts, why keep an hideout, if they can wander tru an intricate forest they know well.. a mage scries upon them, oh wow they are in an intricate forest I don't know, I study well the area for a teleport! oh wait! darn they are moving! and.. KEEP on moving, how the hell I teleport to them? plus the forest looks all the same to me...
they can set traps in the forest they know, keep on moving, and have a dozen of small hideouts while other of them whych remains in the baron castle spies upon the baron and keeps on 'communicating' terms of pay them the randsom via anonimous letters.
it's a dangerous game, but fun!
you know that detect invisibility doesn't find people hidden in shadows? and also true seeing can't pierce trought a nonmagical disguise?... if I slap on my face a pair of fake mustaches... hey it's there, it's real, it's not an illusion, and a thunderstone can DEAFEN?.. (deaf! now you got 50% of failing a spell requiring verbal components..), a blinded mage for example cannot target people with spells..
in the end, it's all a matter of.. brains! (mmm brains..says the homer-illithid) if you know your enemy you can fight him effectively, mages and clerics are a reality in D&D world, no need of balancing, you just need to, bother with considering them in the big picture and tailor situation keeping them in count..
also with npcs! they themselves doesn't have limitless resources, if they kidnap a baron's daughter they wil keep in count that the baron might hire someone to rescue her, they surely know how much money the baron has (else why kidnapping the daugher?) and more or less can understand what kind of theat they can be put against.. again use smarts, why keep an hideout, if they can wander tru an intricate forest they know well.. a mage scries upon them, oh wow they are in an intricate forest I don't know, I study well the area for a teleport! oh wait! darn they are moving! and.. KEEP on moving, how the hell I teleport to them? plus the forest looks all the same to me...
they can set traps in the forest they know, keep on moving, and have a dozen of small hideouts while other of them whych remains in the baron castle spies upon the baron and keeps on 'communicating' terms of pay them the randsom via anonimous letters.
it's a dangerous game, but fun!
I guess that makes you Megan Fox. Sorry you got booted from the last film
kitcik
Adventurer
1) I enjoyed Kahn's post, regardless of whether I agree with it.
2) Despite the first line, I am not really sure who agrees with who.
3) Steal underpants.
4) Assuming they actually do agree, draw your own conclusions on the implications.
5) Don't forget the bologna.
6) This mage you speak of - could it be?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAmNjMsqsFw"]Their Fated Travels... Stupid Wizard is Stupid (Animated Shorts) - YouTube[/ame]
2) Despite the first line, I am not really sure who agrees with who.
3) Steal underpants.
4) Assuming they actually do agree, draw your own conclusions on the implications.
5) Don't forget the bologna.
6) This mage you speak of - could it be?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAmNjMsqsFw"]Their Fated Travels... Stupid Wizard is Stupid (Animated Shorts) - YouTube[/ame]
kitcik
Adventurer
Wow, that's rather disturbing actually.
Just to make this clear to other posters, whatever Arrow may be wishing, we never hooked up. And I'm not a chick. And I'm not interested in dudes or Arrowhawk.
kahn_bloodbane
First Post
haha I just posted my own view on the whole matter and how I run games 
granted, when I dm NOT everyone in the world is smart, there's also umprepared and stupid kidnappers who doesn't think of such things and gets their butts kicked troughtly by adventurers, mages, or yeah even deers.
and don't kid too much on that.. a mage who sees a deer and thinks elves wants to ambush them is a smart mage, mage paranoia RULES! XD
and glad you enjoyed my post
about bologna, it's the actual name of the town I live in... if I remember well for you americans it's a sort of.. steak?
granted, when I dm NOT everyone in the world is smart, there's also umprepared and stupid kidnappers who doesn't think of such things and gets their butts kicked troughtly by adventurers, mages, or yeah even deers.and don't kid too much on that.. a mage who sees a deer and thinks elves wants to ambush them is a smart mage, mage paranoia RULES! XD
and glad you enjoyed my post
about bologna, it's the actual name of the town I live in... if I remember well for you americans it's a sort of.. steak?
Thanks kahn. If only one reader gets it and is encouraged by it, then the post was worth the time it took to write.
This is the problem word here. This word should be "anything." A well prepared mage can do anything but NOT everything. Understanding the difference is key to understanding the underlying problem with the Tier System. A Sorcerer who is "optimized" to do a specific task (because that's what optimization means) is as one dimensional as a Fighter and no more flexible at changing that optimization from encounter to encounter. So ask yourself it that makes sense in terms of the tiering?
And gods. Contact Other Plane specifically says that on rare occasions a diety or some othe force may block the use of the spell. Well guess who gets to decide when those rare occasions crop up? The higher you go, the more likely a demi-diety or demigod or diety or being from another plane may interfere with the use of reality altering spells.
The biggest thing is to educate oneself on what spells any given caster in a party has and what those spells can do. Once one becomes familiar with what spell casters can, designing challenges that they can't unwravel will be easier and easier.
This is the problem word here. This word should be "anything." A well prepared mage can do anything but NOT everything. Understanding the difference is key to understanding the underlying problem with the Tier System. A Sorcerer who is "optimized" to do a specific task (because that's what optimization means) is as one dimensional as a Fighter and no more flexible at changing that optimization from encounter to encounter. So ask yourself it that makes sense in terms of the tiering?
And gods. Contact Other Plane specifically says that on rare occasions a diety or some othe force may block the use of the spell. Well guess who gets to decide when those rare occasions crop up? The higher you go, the more likely a demi-diety or demigod or diety or being from another plane may interfere with the use of reality altering spells.
The biggest thing is to educate oneself on what spells any given caster in a party has and what those spells can do. Once one becomes familiar with what spell casters can, designing challenges that they can't unwravel will be easier and easier.
kitcik
Adventurer
Yeah, it's actually a processed, packaged meat product, like sliced Spam.
Colloquially, it also means something like "that's ridiculous."
AdmundfortGeographer
Getting lost in fantasy maps
Shorter Arrowhawk: superhuman system mastery by the DM allows achievement of Melee vs. Spellcaster nirvana.
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