A throwing double weapon?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Hi, this problem came up in the game I was in tonight, and I came up with an idea my DM accepted as her ruling, but I was just curious what the rest of you think / did we miss the rule for the situation somewhere? Here's the scenario:

New player joining in, makes an orc ranger (twf). He decides to go for the orc double axe and plans to use the enhancements "throwing" and "returning" on it, both because he took brutal throw (str used on thrown attack rolls) and because he thinks the "boomerang effect" of it returning to be cool. Here's the problem: you have to enhance each head separately. What does this mean for making it a returning, throwing weapon.

I thought about it and decided that you'd have to take "throwing" on both ends, otherwise you can only hit with the (single) enhanced end. However, as it makes absolutely no sense for half the weapon to return, and half not, you only have to take "returning" on one end. Was this correct?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jack Simth]

The DM decided it was correct, then it was correct. The DM is never wrong on how the game works in the DM's campaign. The ruling may or may not be RAW, may or may not be fair, may or may not make sense, but it's still correct.

As for what's RAW? No idea.

 

[Anax]

I don't think there’s a need to take throwing or returning on both ends. In fact, I see no reason someone would want to.

Why? Because a returning weapon only returns to you just before the beginning of your next round. (Not your next attack.) That means that the owner won’t be getting more than one ranged attack out of the double weapon, no matter what.

Based on that, the reasonable thing is to allow the other end of the weapon to follow along for free. It’s not going to do any damage, anyway. If there was some way you could get attacks out of both ends from throwing, that would be different.

This special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature’s next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn).

 

[Jack Simth]

I don't think there’s a need to take throwing or returning on both ends. In fact, I see no reason someone would want to.

Differing energy/bane/alignment properties on opposing ends vs. creatures that will be mostly immune to one end or the other?

 

[shilsen]

I'd say that you have to enhance only one end with Throwing and one end (doesn't have to be the same one) with Returning. When you throw the double axe, it would be treated as a ranged and not a double weapon and would hit with just the end that has Throwing on it, after which it would return to the wielder.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Thanks for all the replies! It's not even my character, I just wanted to make sure, since the DM decided to use my interpretation, I didn't miss some tidbit in the RAW or something. As far as the "one end enchanted with throwing" scenario, I pictured the whole weapon as flying towards the enemy, but only the enhanced end being able to hit. If both ends were enhanced to be throwing, the weapon would travel with a spin and both ends would strike before returning. Maybe that isn't really possible, but it is magic, after all.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'd say that you have to enhance only one end with Throwing and one end (doesn't have to be the same one) with Returning.

Well, the Returning property can only be added to 'a weapon that can be thrown'.

Is it possible to have a +1 Returning Greatsword, or must it be a +1 Throwing Returning Greatsword?

After all, "It is possible to throw a weapon that isn’t designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn’t have a numeric entry in the Range Increment column on Table: Weapons), but a character who does so takes a –4 penalty on the attack roll."

A +1 Greatsword is a weapon that isn't designed to be thrown, therefore by this quote, it's possible to throw it, and therefore it's 'a weapon that can be thrown'.

Now, on the other hand, if you give one end of an Double Axe the throwing ability, and use it as a thrown weapon to attack an opponent, can it be stated that you threw the other end as well? If you didn't - if you threw the Throwing end, and the other end just happened to go along for the ride - then a Returning property on the other end wouldn't trigger. But if you could be said to have thrown both ends, the Returning property would trigger...

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Here's how I'd handle it:

Throwing/returning only needs to be placed on one end of a weapon.

When thrown, use the throwing rules for whichever end of the weapon is intended to strike the target. If one end only is enchanted with throwing, then throwing the weapon so the OTHER end hits is throwing a weapon that is not intended to be thrown: -4 to hit.

And if anyone complains that having returning fail if you 'throw the wrong end' of a weapon will be forced to purchase returning for both ends of his weapon.