A tiny offset to the Frenzy Barbarian's neg?

[TheCosmicKid]

One proposed change I saw was to switch Relaxation with Frenzy. So at level 3 you get a very reliable Reaction Attack, and "You hit me I hit you back" seemed appropriate to the Berserker. I thought it was interesting.

"Relaxation" seems a very appropriate feature for a BookBarbarian.

 

[BookBarbarian]

"Relaxation" seems a very appropriate feature for a BookBarbarian.

Freudian autocorrect.

 

[Bardbarian]

It isn't that big of a deal *to you*. It's a straight up deal-breaker for *me*. Berserker is the type of barbarian I'm most interested in, but I wouldn't play one out of the book. And after all the discussions about the problems with it, both concerning balance with other subclasses, and functional thematic disconnect, WotC prints the Zealot, which essentially tells us the subclass is balanced without the exhaustion (or Zealot is way overpowered). These subclasses are no where near on par.

If your game had both a Berserker and a Zealot, maybe your group would feel different.

Any issue that comes up again, and again, and again, from different people, is by definition a real issue. I've decided to quit downplaying such issues for others just because they don't impact my game.

Not trying to attack your post specifically, I've just decided I'm going to stop delegitimizing other people's issues.

I play a lot at high level where many of the issues I see are different from levels 1-10. The zelot seems very strong at early levels but falls off later on where the Berzerker feels much stronger later especially after the level 6 and 14 feature come into their own. The level 6 feature sees less use in tier 2 play because there are less enemies who use those types of effects but by the third tier they are far more common and by the 4th tier of play they are all over the place. I am not trying to deligitimize anyone issues but I do see more people saying they "wouldn't play" it because of the downside rather than "I have played it" and the downside was too much. This is how I ended up playing one, I thought it was bad then I tried it and it felt way better than totem. As for Zealot Barbarians already have an anti death saving throw and I have rarely needed to roll it so having an entire class based around an upgrade to a feature I have not needed feeld underwhelming.

 

[CTurbo]

I played with a DM that allowed the Lesser Restoration spell to remove 1 level and Greater Restoration to remove 3 levels.

Even with this change, the Barb didn't go into a frenzy every encounter, and the Cleric didn't always have the slot to use AFTER a tough encounter.

As an offset to the Cleric basically having to devote mid level spell slots on the Barb, the Barb gave the Cleric his share of all the loot to give to the church.

 

[BookBarbarian]

As for Zealot Barbarians already have an anti death saving throw and I have rarely needed to roll it so having an entire class based around an upgrade to a feature I have not needed feeld underwhelming.

I think given the level 14 feature of the Zealot I would feel free to make all the stupid decisions I usually don't make on a character that is trying to survive. Like charge into a group of 8 enemies or grapple and leap out of flying castles, or getting way up in melee with a Balor or two.

I think I could only properly compare a level 14+ Berserker to a level 14+ Zealot if I was really getting the maximum out of that undying rage. Getting the maximum out of Retaliation, which I think is a strong and reliable use of a reaction, is pretty easy.