A Wizard's question on Grapple

dkers · Dec 19, 2005

A simple Mirror Image should deter or at least delay any would-be grappler.

Kaledor · Dec 19, 2005

Elder-Basilisk said:
Step one: what spells do you use in the first few rounds of combat? And who else is in your party? What do they do?

A. Tactics
If you're a 7th level wizard and the first few rounds of combat are you casting enlarge person on your allies, then that's part of the problem...

No the Enlarge is an ability of each of the other characters and not my doing at all (though I do so love it when the Monk Enlarges and threatens like 20 feet with his Unarmed Attacks and his Reach weapon!). No, my first move is either Haste, Protection (shield or the like), or direct attack with Sculpted Lightning Bolts
I like the idea of Mass Enlarge (but it would duplicate current abilities).
I haven't tried Slow or Fogs... that may be an option to throw out there next combat.

Elder-Basilisk said:
B. Your allies
Deterence. If there's a 7th level rogue with even marginal melee skills in your group, grappling you is like voluntarily failing a save against fireball. It's sneak attack city for the rogue.

We have used that, but our party tends to fight pretty strong enemies and this last fight, with two Large creatures holding me (each in the triple digit HPs) our rogue couldn't cut them down fast enough... but I think I WILL suggest that to her. Have her stick close to me at all times. Also, the DM can be pretty sneaky when it comes to combats... there have been many times where he's "forced" us to move about in directions we don't want... grrr.

Tripping is also a great suggestion. We have a couple of new players in the group (heck, I'm still relatively new!). Anyways, they (we) recently discovered the benefits of Trip. So I think that will be a GREAT addition! Thanks.

As for spells. I like the suggestions.
DD of course, b/c it is so easy to get out of a grapple.
Poly is something I've been wanting to get. It's got a lot of good uses. (chose DD over Polymorph when I gained the level and I'm happy with the choice, but I certainly have to get that spell soon!)

Elder-Basilisk said:
And if, after all this, you're still unable to avoid being grappled, at least be grateful that grapples deal non-lethal damage. If nothing you can do stops your enemies from grappling you, at least they aren't killing you.

Ah yes. I AM VERY GREATFUL OF THAT :heh:

There have been many times my poor elf thought he was about to meet his ancestors.

Hey,
Thanks so much for the detailed reply.
You've given me a ton of ideas.

Kaledor · Dec 19, 2005

Shin Okada said:
If "Run and grapple if you find someone in mage robe" is popular tactics in your campaign world, disguising is one good option.

I don't think it's the look of my character so much as the bolts of lightning that he produces

Honestly, he looks more like a fighter or ranger with the weapons he carries. But the minute you star dealing 7d6 in cubes of electricity across the battlefield, you draw a bit of attention on yourself. I completely see why I'm always targeted... I just need to find a way to stop it :\ ugg.

'Course, an illusion spell might have other applications that could hide me from sight. If I look exactly like another party member, the creatures might have to choose which one to attack... and the psionic monk has an epic-like AC when he's charged up so maybe I'll look like him

Infiniti2000 · Dec 19, 2005

Elder-Basilisk said:
And if, after all this, you're still unable to avoid being grappled, at least be grateful that grapples deal non-lethal damage. If nothing you can do stops your enemies from grappling you, at least they aren't killing you.

This depends on whether or not those creatures have improved grab or want to take the -4 penalty (or have IUS). Given the fact that the DM is gunning for the wizard, it wouldn't surprise me.

Talic · Dec 20, 2005

Excellent suggestions from Elder-Basilisk, particularly the tip about your meatshields using tripping tactics to prevent movement through your lines.

A few other suggestions:
See about aquiring an item (robes/bracers) that give you the "slick" ability. Slick, improved slick, and greater slick armor properties give you a +5, +10, and +15 competance bonus to escape artist checks. Depending on your DM, he may be a stickler for applying those armor properties exclusively for armor, but it sounds like he's open to things so cant hurt to ask.

If you have room for another feat, try picking up Close-Quarters Fighting from Complete Warrior. It lets you make an AoO against a grappler even if you normally wouldnt get one(such as opponent with improved grapple). The opponent with such an ability still may make the grapple check, but any damage you deal on the AoO is added to your grapple check to resist.

Its a few levels away for you yet, but the spell Repulsion might be something you want to look into if it continues to be a problem.

Spider Climb yourself and camp out on a wall where they cant reach you might be an option. Even Levitate could serve that purpose.

Christian · Dec 20, 2005

Infiniti2000 said:
This depends on whether or not those creatures have improved grab or want to take the -4 penalty (or have IUS). Given the fact that the DM is gunning for the wizard, it wouldn't surprise me.

I'm not sure the DM is 'gunning for the mage'-it seems to me he's just using sound tactics. I know that in the game I'm running for my kids, it's become part of the standard battle strategy for my son's monk-locate and grapple enemy casters ... For an unprepared wizard, it's just murderous. His 6th level monk managed to jump an 8th level sorcerer before she had time to properly prepare night before last, and literally took her apart. Absolutely vicious.

kjenks · Dec 20, 2005

Contingency (Blink if I get grappled)

LostSoul · Dec 20, 2005

What about Greater Invisibility? That should keep most guys at your level from finding you, so they can't grapple you. Although it's a heavy spell. I'd rather save it for the Rogue, and just cast the regular Invisibility whenever I was within striking distance.

Inigo Carmine · Dec 20, 2005

Kaledor said:
I make as good a use of cover and other party members as possible (we have two party members that Enlarge on the first sign of combat and that tends to be a good wall of flesh... but not even that always stops creatures from running through threatened zones to reach me!)

I've got Dimension Door. I thought this was going to be the perfect fix to being grappled. I've used that spell as often as I can to get out of grapples, but in this last encounter, two Large creatures grappled me and did enough damage to knock me out before I got to cast the spell.

If you're getting knocked out before you have a chance to cast a spell, then anti-grapple tactics aren't going to make you live longer. IE, if they were able to take you down in a single round, they probably would have been even more effective if they had just plain attacked you instead of grappled you.

Also, for enemies that run through your allies threatened area and eat the AoO, have your allies thought of tripping or grappling them in turn to stop them from getting to you?

Another option is to carry a weapon. Remember that grappling provokes an AoO, and if that AoO does damage, the grapple attempt ends right there. (this won't help against those with improved grapple or grab).