A Wizard's question on Grapple

[Infiniti2000]

I'm not sure the DM is 'gunning for the mage'-it seems to me he's just using sound tactics.

Well, he did say, "...every bad guy out there targets me for a grapple." I think that's called 'gunning for the mage'. Maybe Kaledor's exaggerating, but from what he wrote it doesn't seem like it. In any case, even if it's sound tactics, it doesn't mean he's not doing it.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

yeah I like sound tactics a smuch as every other DM, but it every foe is using sound tactics or even just the majority of them I think there is a problem, maybe its because I run enough less than brilliant foes or something. I try to develop tactics of foes for each encounter I plan. Ideally personality, intelligence, experience/background all go into me determining what there tactics should be. Still its fairly easy to fall back on the oldy but goldies and then grapple the mage.

Though IMO, even if it is a sound tactic against a spellcaster, grapple is a difficult enough activity that it isn't a standard tactic in my games. Basically any activity you need a feat to do without taking an AoO, isn't a standard tactict, unless of course the foe has that feat. Without the feat, its an odd enough maneuver that people don't automatically think about it, so it usually doesn't get used except where the foes are planing an ambush specifically for the party.

 

[AuraSeer]

I happen to like fly for avoiding grapples. No ogre is going to reach you when you're hovering 100' in the air. The short spell duration (in 3.5) can be problematic, but that can be avoided by using a flight item.

Also, don't forget to keep your dagger in hand during combat. Anyone grappling you without Improved Grapple will draw an AoO, and if you do even 1 point of damage the grapple is prevented. Don't count on this as your primary defense, though, because your low BAB means you're likely to miss very often.

 

[Ero Gaki]

I second the use of Improved Invisibility. Keep a bunch of scrolls with Improved Invisibility handy. Its rather difficult to grapple what you can't see. Unless the DM is a cheese-monkey, most of your enemies won't be able to grapple you. If, all of a sudden, every encounter includes enemies with see invisibility or glitterdust or true seeing, that's when I would be upset.

 

[Nac_Mac_Feegle]

Theres also the Vest of Escape, something like +14 to escape artists checks or something.

If your monk is already enlarging and using a reach weapon, have you considered introducing the warrior to the spiked chain aswell? An enlarged Warrior wiht a spiked chain should threaten quite a lot of the battlefield to

Feegle Out

 

[irdeggman]

I agree (and was wondering why it took so long to be suggested) Greater Invisibility is the spell to use. Either via item, scroll or actually spell slot.

 

[monboesen]

The Slow spell (I know, already mentioned) is good enough to be potentially game breaking against big dumb bruisers (usually the best grabblers).

Being reduced to a move OR a standard action (and no full attacks) is a terrible disadvantage and your friends will thank you for casting it every time. It also allows you to stay out of reach much easier.

Combine it with haste the next round and few opponents can stand against the might of your fighter buddies (3 or more attacks each vs. the enemies 1 attack each).

Actions are the most valuable commodity in D&D combat (well at least so long as HP are decently high and a single hit won't kill you). Denying enemies actions are often the most harmful thing you can do to them.

 

[shilsen]

Theres also the Vest of Escape, something like +14 to escape artists checks or something.

Actually, that only gives a +6 competence bonus to Escape Artist checks. Of course, every little bit helps, but a mage will need more than that vs. the average melee combatant.

 

[kjenks]

Disguise Self (Sor/Wiz 1, 10 min./level): Look like you're a tall, muscular half-orc wearing full plate with armor spikes and wielding a spiked chain. That should make creatures think twice before attempting to approach and grapple you. If your DM keeps having the bad guys target you after that, he's definitely gunning for the mage and you need to have a chat.

 

[Kaledor]

Well, he did say, "...every bad guy out there targets me for a grapple." I think that's called 'gunning for the mage'. Maybe Kaledor's exaggerating, but from what he wrote it doesn't seem like it. In any case, even if it's sound tactics, it doesn't mean he's not doing it.

In this last fight, it wasn't an exaggeration.
I have just reached 7th level and have Dim Door memorized. We have had two small fights and one large one (the last one). In the first fight I was grapple by a creature with tenticles (I don't think it targeted the mage specifically, I just happened to be there and get hit). DD got me out without much fuss. The second fight, six human-intelligence magic creatures. First spell was an attack spell -- that got their attentions and 4 of them targeted me. They charged in (possibly to grapple) and one round later were dead from spells and my fellow meat shields (ie Fighters). I was ready to use DD to save my bacon if need be... so it seemed like DD was the answers to my Grapple problems (which prior to 7th level was happening every fourth fight it seemed).

The third fight (more of the same Int creatures) was the bad one. Two offensive attack spells got their attention and of the 25 combatants, 16 targeted me (Including 2 of the 3 Large creatures). My fellow party members did an excellent job fending off the Medium sized opponents, but the Large ones got through to me. I broke the first one's 2 attempts at a grapple (feeling pretty good about my mage ), but his thrid caught me . Then the second Large creature joined the grapple, I got one lucky oppose roll, but his other two rolls brought me down.

Had I been able to act between the two Large creatures' initiative I would have been fine. Had there been less attackers I would have been fine. Had they done normal attacks on me I would have been fine (AC is high enough)... but it was the combination that got me. I think from some of the suggestions freedom of movement would be ideal as would other tactic shaping spells like slow/haste combos, fogs, or flight subschools...


As for whether it's a sound tactic for the DM or whether I think he's being unfair. Sure I don't like it that he targets my character... but in the previous situations it does seem somewhat reasonable -- the enemies were intelligent, they saw one character pumping out magic, they tried to take him down first at all costs... And it's not that I look like a mage (so disguising as a generic fighter won't help... I already look like a warrior), the DM does wait for me to start lighting up the sky with magic. The problem is that if I DON'T start offensive casting (in order to avoid the attention), then a huge advantage of my class is wasted.

Though IMO, even if it is a sound tactic against a spellcaster, grapple is a difficult enough activity that it isn't a standard tactic in my games. Basically any activity you need a feat to do without taking an AoO, isn't a standard tactict, unless of course the foe has that feat. Without the feat, its an odd enough maneuver that people don't automatically think about it, so it usually doesn't get used except where the foes are planing an ambush specifically for the party.

Now that's a very interesting point.
I may bring that one up to see if it stops the grapple-o-thon that my wizard gets to participate in all the time. See, I don't mind the normal attacks b/c my normal AC is pretty high (as it should be with the right magics). But my grapple touch AC is not high enough I guess.


Thanks for all the suggestions everyone
I've definitely got some ideas to use in the next fight!