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D&D 5E A WOTC 5e Warlord That Would Be Acceptable To Skeptics

Define "a few."
Well, based on the poll thread, we know of ~186 people out of possibly millions playing D&D (do we have that number?), who have voiced a countable opinion of wanting a "full warlord".

But I should caution, one should never go "full warlord"...

How does this "few" wanting a 'warlord' compare in numbers with those wanting an 'artificer,' 'psionics,' or an alternate ranger?
Who knows. Maybe you should start a poll thread and ask?
 

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Something else in your question just sparked a point I think is worth making.

Do you know why the various AU articles have been written (such as the artificer, psionics and alt ranger)? Because at least one of the devs was interested, and motivated, to do it. It was something they felt a desire to bring forward. It was time to broach the subject or take on the idea.

Wonder why the warlord has slipped past all of them thus far?...
 

Something else in your question just sparked a point I think is worth making.

Do you know why the various AU articles have been written (such as the artificer, psionics and alt ranger)? Because at least one of the devs was interested, and motivated, to do it. It was something they felt a desire to bring forward. It was time to broach the subject or take on the idea.

Wonder why the warlord has slipped past all of them thus far?...
There is an obvious answer. The 'artificer' and 'psionics' are tied to particular popular D&D settings: e.g. Eberron, Dark Sun, etc. Plus, if there is an issue with the PHB ranger, then that would be a higher priority than the 'warlord.' It says nothing about the (un-)worthiness of the warlord to be included but of their priorities. That said, psionics strikes me as being in a similar position as the 'warlord.' There are many people who absolutely loathe the notion of 'psionics' and will never allow one near their table, regardless of their D&D legacy. I think that the 'warlord' will come to AU as one of the classes, but D&D's development time is limited by an incredibly small dev staff. So when you ask "why the warlord has slipped past all of them thus far" it does not require any hostile implication against the 'warlord,' since there are clear pragmatic alternative explanations that are available.
 

But they didn't. There is no way to build a nonmagical pc who excels at enabling his teammates while not being such a hot fighter himself. The bard is all kinds of magical. It will do for some players, but really doesn't scratch teh warlord itch for many; it's got magic all up the wazoo. The battlemaster can do a little warlordy stuff, but it will only be a small part of her fighter arsenal, and it's just a little warlordy stuff.

I am more and more convinced that, at least for my campaign, 5e needs a warlord. I'm gradually working up to taking a shot at homebrewing one.

And meanwhile I will be crying there in the dark...
 

Wonder why the warlord has slipped past all of them thus far?...

My first guess is because they were doing active development of the Purple Dragon Knight in the upcoming Sword Coast Adventures book. I think it'll be another stab at the archetype, leaning more on the Cha/inspiration side of things than on the tactical/manuevers side.
 

And meanwhile I will be crying there in the dark...

Another clue! (C.f. mellored's "Tactician" thread.)

So MoonSong is sad and/or cries when people make Warlord homebrews. Now we need a theory for why. Mystery nearly solved.

The Warlord did it. On the battlefield. With a Bohemian Ear Spoon.
 

Another clue! (C.f. mellored's "Tactician" thread.)

So MoonSong is sad and/or cries when people make Warlord homebrews. Now we need a theory for why. Mystery nearly solved.

The Warlord did it. On the battlefield. With a Bohemian Ear Spoon.
Because MoonLord made a quasi-warlord class on the ENsider (or whatever it is called) called 'the noble.'
 

I don't need, and certainly don't want a Warlord Class in D&D 5e. It would be a step back in design to my mind, because the premise of the Warlord as a Class is such a flawed concept.

I'd accept a Fighter sub-type which utilises tactical, leadership and supporting options, but I think the notion of a separate Class undermines the scope and function of a Fighter.
 
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Yes. It also takes him four attacks to equal one spell from the sorcerer. And it takes a paladin smiting to equal that damage. That's kind of what balance looks like - when going balls to the wall, everyone does a lot of damage (and fighters maybe edge out others in a lot of situations, just because additional attacks tend to eclipse smites and spells due to additive effects, but there are more limited niches where spells and smites are probably better). In 5e, everyone's a Striker. :)



Again, your fighter is hardly damage-optimized, so it shouldn't be exactly shocking that party members who spike damage spike it harder. You're not investing as much into it. If you want to shift the goals again to the ranger, you'll have to bring in subclass options - the ranger's getting damage from being a Hunter. Compare "+ 1d8 damage on everything that's already been hit" (which is quite good!) with advantage on every melee attack you get for an entire turn. If advantage turns even one miss of yours into a hit, you're out-damaging the normal ranger, and if it turns two, you're out-damaging the fighter/ranger, since your attacks will do more than 1d8 damage. And if it turns one of those misses into a crit, you're doing EVEN BETTER. Not to mention that it applies to STR saves you might make as well, giving you a powerful antidote to low rolls against forced movement/entanglement-style effects (really just the cherry on top of that advantage sundae). A bog-standard Champion wouldn't have that, but they'd have improved critical, so they'd be adding much more than 1d8 onto their attacks in the long run.

Ultimately, though, my purpose here isn't to persuade you that your fighter is powerful, but merely to point out that "5e fighters are clearly weak" is not a statement with a strong foundation. Your character is already in the same league as paladins, sorcerers, and rangers. That you feel that it isn't doesn't seem to match with the reality of what I see happening in play. I don't see your fighter's four-hit Action Surge'd advantage'd attack round and say "that seems weak," I say, "dang, I wish I could do that once every fight." The fighter isn't under-performing. In fact, the weakest member of our party in terms of damage output is probably either the rogue/battlemaster (who has a bit of a "good at several things, not REALLY good at anything" issue, but can still be dang impressive with a superiority + sneak attack), or the wild mage (because an enemy who makes a save is an enemy who I spent a lot of resources on doing nothing to, plus everyone likes being confused, right?!).

Fighters are not clearly weak, and your comparison with the sorcerer, the paladin, and the ranger all come up roughly on par, if not often better.

How am I in the same league when I do half as much damage?

I have to hit FOUR TIMES just to equal the defensive paladin. And I can only do that once per short rest. The paladin can smite pretty much at will by now - he's got that many spell slots. He can certainly do so every round.

My point wasn't that fighters were weak (although, I'm not sure that they might not be) but rather that this idea that fighters are combat kings is ridiculous. Even a damage focused fighter gets overshadowed by every other damage focused character. My defensive fighter, with heavy armour and all the goodies, has the same AC than the light armour Dex monkey. So he gets to do double the damage that I do, with the same defences.

My point through all of this is that the fighter as "damage king" is a myth. Fighters aren't the damage kings - which is a shame since that's supposed to be a fighter's schtick. I should not have to laser beam focus a charop board fighter just to do the same damage as a paladin. It should be the other way around, if fighters are supposed to be the combat kings.
 
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How am I in the same league when I do half as much damage?

I have to hit FOUR TIMES just to equal the defensive paladin. And I can only do that once per short rest. The paladin can smite pretty much at will by now - he's got that many spell slots. He can certainly do so every round.

He only does four times the damage when he invests high-level spell slots, which he can only do a limited number of times per day.

Strictly speaking at 5th level...

Mr. Maul going balls to the wall (Str 18, with your advantage mechanic from the subclass) = 132 possible points of damage per day, via 12 attacks each made with advantage
Mr. Smiteypants (same Str, and using a maul too, why not!) = 109 possible points of damage per day, via 5 attacks and spending every single spell slot on a smite. A Vow of Emnity can give 3 of those attacks advantage, to boot!

We find that a smite is significantly less efficient than just having another attack. At 18 rounds per day (3 rounds per fight and 6 fights per day), Mr. Smiteypants spends about 27% of his rounds doing smitey stuff (presuming at least one of his attacks hits, he can smite during 5 of those rounds). Mr. Maul only spends 3 rounds surge-bursting (17% of the rounds), so maybe what we're looking at is less that you aren't performing as well, and more than you aren't performing as often (it's a little odd to think that the vancian character is doing less damage a little more often than the hypothetically "reliable" fighter, but there you have it!)? Plausible, at any rate.

Ultimately, the perception that the fighter is underperforming isn't really born out by the math. The fighter does not suck at doing damage.

My point wasn't that fighters were weak (although, I'm not sure that they might not be) but rather that this idea that fighters are combat kings is ridiculous. Even a damage focused fighter gets overshadowed by every other damage focused character. My defensive fighter, with heavy armour and all the goodies, has the same AC than the light armour Dex monkey. So he gets to do double the damage that I do, with the same defences.

I have no idea where you're getting double damage from, but I can say that the perception that you're getting overshadowed seems to be just that - a perception. Calling something a combat king because it deals an extra 20 points of damage and still has resources left for healing isn't ridiculous.

My point through all of this is that the fighter as "damage king" is a myth. Fighters aren't the damage kings - which is a shame since that's supposed to be a fighter's schtick. I should not have to laser beam focus a charop board fighter just to do the same damage as a paladin. It should be the other way around, if fighters are supposed to be the combat kings.

I'd say that classes in 5e are roughly balanced within a pillar - everyone's roughly as good at anyone else in combat/exploration/interaction. A fighter who wants to focus on damage can match any other character that focuses on damage, which is probably as it should be: if I make a damage-focused sorcerer, I don't want to suck at what I'm trying to do, so I should be able to match what any other class can do, if they are damage-focused.

Arguably, fighters DO have the most damage potential out of other classes (the math shows it, anyway), but it's not by much (20 points ain't nothin', but it's probably not overall very noticeable). Every comparison I've run so far as the fighter edging out the other classes when it comes to beat-down.
 
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