steels12
Explorer
Hey all,
One of my players recently made a Warlock and we've run into some fuzziness on particular eldritch invocations, and my questions around how you interpret the rules surrounding it. Specifically, we're talking about the Eldritch Grasp invocation and the potential synergies around it and how they affect combat.
RAW text below:
Eldritch Grasp
Prerequisite: 7th level
When you hit a Large-sized or smaller creature
with your Eldritch Blast or when a Large-sized or
smaller creature fails its saving throw against it,
you can attempt to grapple the creature, using your
spell save DC instead of your maneuver DC. The
grapple automatically ends if the creature leaves
your Eldritch Blast range or if you attempt to
grapple another creature.
My player has interpreted this ruling to mean that when you cast your eldritch blast and hit a creature, they take full damage and then must save against being grappled. However, I can see an argument for this becoming something that has effectively no cost and thus very spammable, especially if you're up to, say, level 11 and can shoot three blasts per turn, and I worry about constant saving throws bogging down combat on that player's turn (not massively, but enough that a one-trick becomes grating for the others). It also seems wildly powerful, typically one has to be in and STAY in melee range to keep a creature grappled, but with this first interpretation, one could stand up to 120 feet away with Eldritch Ray and be able to make 3 grapple attempts per turn every turn, with the enemy having to spend their entire action just to not be grappled. One example of a very powerful synergy would be Repelling Blast which just lets you push a creature of any size, speed, or magnitude 10 feet just by hitting them. That could be used 3 times per turn PLUS grapple to completely root most enemies out of range and soft stunlock them.
So one interpretation I suggested was that, firstly, line of sight is required to be maintained, as typically this would put an enemy out of "range" of a direct-to-hit attack spell. Secondly, one of the trade-offs of grappling normally is you're foregoing your normal attack / weapon damage to instead inflict a debuff (the rules for Basic Melee Damage even specify it can't be used to activate other abilities unless explicitly stated), so I wonder if it's meant to be interpreted as "you can attempt to grapple with your eldritch blast, meaning you do "basic damage" but force them to roll or be grappled".
There's a lot of counterarguments to be made, such as having an allied enemy use a grapple maneuver to try and free their compatriot, breaking line of sight, the fact that not all Warlocks will choose Eldritch Ray, the fact most combat won't just have one enemy, the fact it's a 2-invocation cost to synergize, the fact combat terrain might not just be an open featureless room, etc etc. I'm just curious how everyone feels / interprets this.
One of my players recently made a Warlock and we've run into some fuzziness on particular eldritch invocations, and my questions around how you interpret the rules surrounding it. Specifically, we're talking about the Eldritch Grasp invocation and the potential synergies around it and how they affect combat.
RAW text below:
Eldritch Grasp
Prerequisite: 7th level
When you hit a Large-sized or smaller creature
with your Eldritch Blast or when a Large-sized or
smaller creature fails its saving throw against it,
you can attempt to grapple the creature, using your
spell save DC instead of your maneuver DC. The
grapple automatically ends if the creature leaves
your Eldritch Blast range or if you attempt to
grapple another creature.
My player has interpreted this ruling to mean that when you cast your eldritch blast and hit a creature, they take full damage and then must save against being grappled. However, I can see an argument for this becoming something that has effectively no cost and thus very spammable, especially if you're up to, say, level 11 and can shoot three blasts per turn, and I worry about constant saving throws bogging down combat on that player's turn (not massively, but enough that a one-trick becomes grating for the others). It also seems wildly powerful, typically one has to be in and STAY in melee range to keep a creature grappled, but with this first interpretation, one could stand up to 120 feet away with Eldritch Ray and be able to make 3 grapple attempts per turn every turn, with the enemy having to spend their entire action just to not be grappled. One example of a very powerful synergy would be Repelling Blast which just lets you push a creature of any size, speed, or magnitude 10 feet just by hitting them. That could be used 3 times per turn PLUS grapple to completely root most enemies out of range and soft stunlock them.
So one interpretation I suggested was that, firstly, line of sight is required to be maintained, as typically this would put an enemy out of "range" of a direct-to-hit attack spell. Secondly, one of the trade-offs of grappling normally is you're foregoing your normal attack / weapon damage to instead inflict a debuff (the rules for Basic Melee Damage even specify it can't be used to activate other abilities unless explicitly stated), so I wonder if it's meant to be interpreted as "you can attempt to grapple with your eldritch blast, meaning you do "basic damage" but force them to roll or be grappled".
There's a lot of counterarguments to be made, such as having an allied enemy use a grapple maneuver to try and free their compatriot, breaking line of sight, the fact that not all Warlocks will choose Eldritch Ray, the fact most combat won't just have one enemy, the fact it's a 2-invocation cost to synergize, the fact combat terrain might not just be an open featureless room, etc etc. I'm just curious how everyone feels / interprets this.
