Aasimar Commoner Proficiencies Question

[DanMcS]

Actually, it's wierd how "All outsiders gain proficiency with all martial and simple weapons unless otherwise stated" seems so much more powerful than "All outsiders gain Militia (FRCS, grants proficiency with all martial and simple weapons) as bonus feat unless otherwise stated" ...

Not really. That feat was too good, too. One feat that grants potentially infinite other feats? The heck?

 

[Sejs]

Not really. That feat was too good, too. One feat that grants potentially infinite other feats? The heck?

It's a regional feat. You can only ever have one, and it's got to be one from the region your character is from. Oh, and they can only be taken at character creation.

They're more powerful than other feats because that's the intention. Restrictions on when and who can take 'em and they're supposed to make you feel more tied in to your native culture.

The only way Militia grants infinite other feats is if there're infinitly more simple and martial weapons introduced. Most weapons I've seen that've shown up in later books are exotic, almost to the last.

 

[Sejs]

Actually, it's wierd how "All outsiders gain proficiency with all martial and simple weapons unless otherwise stated" seems so much more powerful than "All outsiders gain Militia (FRCS, grants proficiency with all martial and simple weapons) as bonus feat unless otherwise stated" ...

Militia came along far after outsiders had their proficiencies.

Militia is campaign specific to the Realms.

Militia is a regional feat. If outsiders gained Militia, they couldn't have another regional feat from their own region.

Apples and Oranges.

 

[Cabral]

Not really. My point was that rewording the same effect as a bonus feat altered the sense of balance.

btw, I really like the regional feats except for the regionalness. It's fine for the Forgotten Realms, but it'd be nice if the regional requirements were an alternate prereq. Otherwise, it 1) violates the 3.5 principle that either anyone can potentially learn something or it's a class feature. (Hence no more exclusive skills); and 2) makes adapting the feat to a regionless campaign setting difficult.

 

[Thanee]

There's an entry on Aasimar characters in the MM, which details what they gain. No weapon proficiencies. Those are for racial levels in 'outsider'.

Bye
Thanee

 

[kirinke]

Actually, you are reading it wrong. Aasimar are native outsiders, not outsiders.
Page 209
What you are reading is the template applied to a base class. In this case a paladin character. Go by the template, not by the write up.

So here is what you get when you have an Aasimar character:
— +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma.
—Medium size.
—An aasimar’s base land speed is 30 feet.
—Darkvision: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
—Racial Skills: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks.
—Racial Feats: An aasimar gains feats according to its class levels.
—Special Attacks (see above): Daylight.
—Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5.
—Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling,
Sylvan.
—Favored Class: Paladin.
—Level adjustment +1.

Native subtype:
A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated or ressurected just as any other living creature. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtypes name)
Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat, sleep and breathe.

Aasimars, tieflings and other plane-touched creatures are not true outsiders. So they don't get outsider abilities like weapon proficiencies. They have to get them through the classes they take. Hence, the reason why they are a playable race. And a very fun playable race at that.

 

[TheEvil]

Actually, you are reading it wrong. Aasimar are native outsiders, not outsiders.

Native subtype:
A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated or ressurected just as any other living creature. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtypes name)
Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat, sleep and breathe.

Aasimars, tieflings and other plane-touched creatures are not true outsiders. So they don't get outsider abilities like weapon proficiencies. They have to get them through the classes they take. Hence, the reason why they are a playable race. And a very fun playable race at that.

Then the part about Native Outsiders under the Outsider heading serves what purpose?

 

[kirinke]

NATIVE OUTSIDERS
These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated or ressurected just as any other living creature. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtypes name) Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat, sleep and breathe

OUTSIDERS
Outsider Type: An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence.
Features: An outsider has the following features.
—8-sided Hit Dice.
—Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).
—Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.
—Skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.
Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
—Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
—Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
—Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.

Basically, Native outsiders are watered down versions of true outsiders. They have lived a long time on the material plane and have mostly lost the glowiness (infernal or holy) a real outsider possesses. They still have a spark of their ancestor's glory or horror, but not the whole monty to coin a popular phrase.

Native outsiders have only the abilities ascribed in their templates, such as the aasimar and tiefling. The do not have any of the abilities described in the Outsider description

 

[Cabral]

While I agree with your end result, your method is flawed. Native outsiders are "True" Outsiders with the Native subtype.

 

[TheEvil]

NATIVE OUTSIDERS
These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated or ressurected just as any other living creature. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtypes name) Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat, sleep and breathe

OUTSIDERS
Outsider Type: An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence.
Features: An outsider has the following features.
—8-sided Hit Dice.
—Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).
—Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.
—Skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.
Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
—Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
—Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
—Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.

Basically, Native outsiders are watered down versions of true outsiders. They have lived a long time on the material plane and have mostly lost the glowiness (infernal or holy) a real outsider possesses. They still have a spark of their ancestor's glory or horror, but not the whole monty to coin a popular phrase.

Native outsiders have only the abilities ascribed in their templates, such as the aasimar and tiefling. The do not have any of the abilities described in the Outsider description

I will try asking this another way. If Native Outsiders have none of the abilities of Outsiders not mentioned under Native Outsider, then why is it pointed out under the Outsider template where Native Outsiders are different?