Aasimar Commoner Proficiencies Question

[TheEvil]

While I agree with your end result, your method is flawed. Native outsiders are "True" Outsiders with the Native subtype.

If you agree with the end result, perhaps you can explain why the abilties are broken up into Features and Traits?

 

[Thanee]

You must learn to read between the lines, unfortunately the rules are not always written out precisely in D&D and if you follow them word by word you get funny results in some cases.

The racial weapon proficiencies are simply the equivalent of the class weapon proficiencies, just for the 'racial class', i.e. for those creatures, that have more than 1 HD and do not *purely* advance by character class.

Bye
Thanee

 

[kirinke]

While I agree with your end result, your method is flawed. Native outsiders are "True" Outsiders with the Native subtype.

I stand corrected.
*Bows*

 

[TheEvil]

You must learn to read between the lines, unfortunately the rules are not always written out precisely in D&D and if you follow them word by word you get funny results in some cases.

The racial weapon proficiencies are simply the equivalent of the class weapon proficiencies, just for the 'racial class', i.e. for those creatures, that have more than 1 HD and do not *purely* advance by character class.

Bye
Thanee

Again I will ask, if the weapon proficiencies were only intended for outsiders with racial hit dice, why weren't they placed in the section that discussed hit dice based features?

 

[kirinke]

Because they weren't. What we're trying to say is that when you are dealing with a particular race or sub-race like the Aasimar, go with the Aasimar's template description. Native outsiders don't get weapon or armour proficiencies unless they take up a class or feat that has them.

Whether or not they are placed in the section that discussed hit dice based features is a moot point. And if you read the Native subtype description in the glossary, you will see that Native outsiders do not get those kinds of proficiencies simply because they are Native Outsiders.

 

[Sejs]

I'm showing up late to the prom here, but just my two bits:

As I see it, the proficiencies, skill points, etc., listed in the outsider type are for use with outsider racial hit dice.

An aasimar commoner has none.

Thus an aasimar commoner is not proficient with simple/martial weapons, any more than he has 8+ int mod skill points or all good saves.

 

[TheEvil]

Because they weren't. What we're trying to say is that when you are dealing with a particular race or sub-race like the Aasimar, go with the Aasimar's template description. Native outsiders don't get weapon or armour proficiencies unless they take up a class or feat that has them.

Whether or not they are placed in the section that discussed hit dice based features is a moot point. And if you read the Native subtype description in the glossary, you will see that Native outsiders do not get those kinds of proficiencies simply because they are Native Outsiders.

Nothing I have read indicates that a subtype overrides the base template except as noted in the subtype. I feel it is instructive that they include the differences due to the Native subtype in the Outsider template. Why would you assume changes more drastic then were included there?

From the SRD:
Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

I see nothing in the Planetouched entry that notes that they don't get the weapon proficiencies. I also don't see anything in the Native subtype heading that indicates they lose the weapon proficiencies.

Think I will start a poll on this

 

[kirinke]

Oi.

The Native subtype overrides the Outsider type base. Native outsider and Outsider are not template's persae. An Aasimar is a template. Now if you want to go completely literal, just go by what is in the template for the aasimar and that would be:

****​

Most aasimars are decidedly good-aligned. They fight against evil causes and attempt to sway others to do the right thing. Occasionally they take on the vengeful, judgmental aspect of their celestial ancestor, but this is rare. Combat
Aasimars usually like a fair, straightforward contest. Against a particularly evil foe, however, they fight with utter conviction and to the death.
Daylight (Sp): An aasimar can use daylight once per day as a 1st-level caster or a caster of his class levels, whichever is higher.
Skills: An aasimar has a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks.

Aasimar as Characters
Aasimar characters possess the following racial traits.
— +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma.
—Medium size.
—An aasimar’s base land speed is 30 feet.
—Darkvision: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
—Racial Skills: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks.
—Racial Feats: An aasimar gains feats according to its class levels.
—Special Attacks (see above): Daylight.
—Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5.
—Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial.
—Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Sylvan.
—Favored Class: Paladin.
—Level adjustment +1.

 

[TheEvil]

Oi.

The Native subtype overrides the Outsider type base. Native outsider and Outsider are not template's persae. An Aasimar is a template. Now if you want to go completely literal, just go by what is in the template for the aasimar and that would be:.

No getting frustrated now. Wouldn't you prefer to pursuade me through the give and take of debate rather then premature capitulation?

Back to your response, would you likewise state the the Evil subtype overides the outsider template for a demon?

****​

Most aasimars are decidedly good-aligned. They fight against evil causes and attempt to sway others to do the right thing. Occasionally they take on the vengeful, judgmental aspect of their celestial ancestor, but this is rare. Combat
Aasimars usually like a fair, straightforward contest. Against a particularly evil foe, however, they fight with utter conviction and to the death.
Daylight (Sp): An aasimar can use daylight once per day as a 1st-level caster or a caster of his class levels, whichever is higher.
Skills: An aasimar has a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks.

Aasimar as Characters
Aasimar characters possess the following racial traits.
— +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma.
—Medium size.
—An aasimar’s base land speed is 30 feet.
—Darkvision: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
—Racial Skills: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks.
—Racial Feats: An aasimar gains feats according to its class levels.
—Special Attacks (see above): Daylight.
—Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5.
—Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial.
—Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Sylvan.
—Favored Class: Paladin.
—Level adjustment +1.

Still don't see anything that says they don't get the abilities provided by the outsider template.

P.S. - Those are racial abilities, not a template.

 

[TheEvil]

From the Humanoid template from the SRD:

Traits: A humanoid possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—Proficient with all simple weapons, or by character class.
—Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, or by character class. If a humanoid does not have a class and wears armor, it is proficient with that type of armor and all lighter types. Humanoids not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Humanoids are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
—Humanoids breathe, eat, and sleep.

Note the bold text. This text is absent in the Outsider template text.