Abilities Capped at 20 Won't Work

[ren1999]

I think it places too much importance on players wanting to roll the highest abilities they can for the best possible character. Everything is based on abilities now.

If it is possible to roll a natural 18 before modifiers, that means that the player's ability score can only scale 2 points before they max it. Even if levels are cut down to 20, it isn't satisfying to gain just 2 points in a lifetime of 20 level-ups. Furthermore, spell effects, magic items, damage conditions, etc. raise or lower ability scores.

Now ability represents raw talent before experience. But when you award ability bonuses after leveling-up, ability now represents natural raw talent and improvement such as getting physically stronger from adventuring.

If you can roll a natural 18 then class experience, magical item and spell enhancements, should account for at least 18 more. Not 2 more.

Consider my previous proposal to cap everything at 30. I've been play-testing this for awhile now and it works nice.

Level, ability and bonus limits

Class level and multi-class level totals top at 30th level.
When bonuses are applied, each ability score stacks to a maximum of 30.
For example, strength may start with the highest possible score of 18.
Add +1 if this is a racial strength bonus.
Add +1 if this is a class strength bonus.
Add +4 if all level-up bonuses to 30th level are applied to strength.
Add +6 which should be the maximum stacking bonus of magic items, spell and prayer effects, powers, skills and feats combined.
The maximum possible strength score and modifier will be str 30(+10).

This max +10 ability modifier will be applied to Skills, ToHit and Damage.
The Dexterity Modifier will be applied to Armor Class.

It can all be done without adding 1/2 level to the modifier.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If it is possible to roll a natural 18 before modifiers, that means that the player's ability score can only scale 2 points before they max it. Even if levels are cut down to 20, it isn't satisfying to gain just 2 points in a lifetime of 20 level-ups.

The other side of the equation though is that you can only get so much better at a natural ability that you are already really strong in, even after you start training.

Jackie Chan had an 18 DEX before his first film. Once he started his career in martial arts movies, he didn't double his flexibility and agility over those 20 years. It might have gotten slightly better, but it certainly did not double. It was PRIOR to his adventuring career in film that his DEX doubled from 9 to 18 to start.

College football players who might not have done much working out while in school might get drafted into the NFL with a 14 STR. Then over their NFL career, they might get their STR up to an 18 or so due to team-enhanced weight training programs... but it still doesn't double.

If the game has a max cap of 20 on any ability score, and your PC starts his adventuring career already at an 18... it just means you did all your work to get that good at it PRIOR to adventuring. But that doesn't mean you now get to surpass the maximum in human endeavor because of it.

 

[Tehnai]

I only have one question. Why? I mean, it sort breaks the whole "flatter math" thing, and just brings us back to 4E, which not a lot of players want. I mean, we already have 4E, why make it twice?

Also, one can only be so strong. You'll rarely see a fantasy character who's raw strength rivals the gods', even in characters known for their strength (not counting demi-gods, of course). I mean, Conan could kill a man by throwing a chair, could knock out a camel with a punch, but probably never, through out his adventuring career, throw said camel.

I've never been a fan of ability scores growing at all. I miss the old Gauntlet of Ogre Strength raising one's strength to 18. Because that's how strong an ogre is.

Essentially, I hope all that stuff just stays in 3.X and 4E.

 

[the Jester]

Once again, I disagree with you.

A cap on stats is essential to flattening the math, if we're keeping bonuses for ability scores as they are since 3.0 (i.e., 12 gives +1, 14 gives +2, etc).

Personally, I think we need to go further and reduce the rate of stat increase as well.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

I only have one question. Why? I mean, it sort breaks the whole "flatter math" thing, and just brings us back to 4E, which not a lot of players want. I mean, we already have 4E, why make it twice?

I echo this: Why?

You haven't demonstrated that capping ability scores at 20 won't work; you've only shown that you don't like it. I, for one, think it will work out just fine, and I like the idea quite a bit.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

I hope there is no increase to ability scores from gaining levels.

 

[john112364]

I for one hope that there is a way to increase your stats during play. You don't stay the same your whole life. But I don't think it should be frequent or easy. Maybe it should cost a feat or some such thing. I also think a cap of 20 is a good thing. Otherwise as has been stated it breaks the flatter math. A 20 should represent the peak of mortal kind.

 

[Yora]

Where does it say abilties are capped at 20?

Also, people should not asume to be able to start characters with more than 15 in anything.

 

[the Jester]

Where does it say abilties are capped at 20?

In the playtest packet, pg 3, paragraph 3:

A score of 18 is the highest that a normal person usually reaches. Adventurers can have scores as high as 20 and monsters and divine beings can have scores as high as 30.

Also, people should not asume to be able to start characters with more than 15 in anything.

Uh... whether you use point buy or roll, this has never been true in D&D's history. Why now?

 

[underfoot007ct]

I think it places too much importance on players wanting to roll the highest abilities they can for the best possible character. Everything is based on abilities now.

<snip>

If you can roll a natural 18 then class experience, magical item and spell enhancements, should account for at least 18 more. Not 2 more.

Consider my previous proposal to cap everything at 30. I've been play-testing this for awhile now and it works nice.

I disagree with you as well. Yes, It does place importance on your abilities. If you roll your stats (vs point buy or array), you want the best char regardless of which edition you play. Nothing has changed that.

I think you are forgetting or ignoring the stated design goal, of flatter math. This indeed is flatter math, as promised.