D&D 5E Ability Check origins at your table

[overgeeked]

It's saying the same thing.

It's a distinction that makes a difference...just not to you.

But having to state everything following a prescribed pattern? It would drive me a little crazy.

As opposed to the prescribed pattern you prefer? The referee presents a bit of information, the player assumes a roll is necessary, assumes what skill is applicable, rolls, then reports the result. The difference is we'd prefer the player not make those assumptions, to not skip the conversation. That's all. It drives me crazy when players make those assumptions, skip the conversation, and just roll.

It doesn't matter to me, I've just never had a DM that cared and I don't get why it matters.

You get that making assumptions is generally bad, right? That's why it matters. Further, players take the assumptions they've made, then act on them...and further assume that all of that is what the referee would have wanted them to do.

Our preferences are different than yours. Sorry it doesn't make sense to you. But that has no effect on our preferences. Sorry, but I honestly don't get the impression that several of us explaining it all again is going to make any difference at all.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

It doesn't matter to me, I've just never had a DM that cared and I don't get why it matters. As far as being expedient in parts of the game that don't add a little of value, I fail to see how that can be a bad thing.

I seem to have rolled a 1 at explaining play at our table if you "don't get why it matters" and seem to think that how players describe the intended actions of their PCs brings "little of value".

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I think this is really a group dynamic thing. I am new and have to ask still if a skill can or can't be used, but I know people who were playing with the same DM they are now before I was born. They could semi reliable to tell you what the DM is going to order for dinner, or what the dungeon will be like before we leave town... those guys have a pretty good idea of when and if a roll will be called for.

Also it seems that people who DM in general are better at making that assumption, and being in the "more right then wrong" then those of us that don't DM often.

And those that have been playing that long may incorporate playstyles, rules, and guidance from prior versions of the game, further adding to the dissonance you might experience. If you played at our table, you would just have your character do/attempt things in the fiction. The DM would let you know whether an ability check would be required and, if so, what skill is pertinent in that situation. And you, as the player, would be free to suggest an alternate skill in certain circumstances prior to rolling.

 

[AmandaBarbarian]

And those that have been playing that long may incorporate playstyles, rules, and guidance from prior versions of the game, further adding to the dissonance you might experience.

okay, I have played lots of TTRPG but 5e was my first D&D

If you played at our table, you would just have your character do/attempt things in the fiction.

so what would you do when I ask can I use perception here? or if I asked "Oh can arcane skill help?" or "Can I use insight to see if they are hiding something?"
all of those are things I have said in the last year.

The DM would let you know whether an ability check would be required and, if so, what skill is pertinent in that situation. And you, as the player, would be free to suggest an alternate skill in certain circumstances prior to rolling.

 

[CleverNickName]

In my game it can be as simple as

DM: "... the door is locked"​

Player: "20 to open"​

DM: "You silently pick the lock, what do you do?"​

instead of

DM: "... the door is locked"​

Player: "Can I pick the lock?"​

DM: "Roll a thieve's tools check"​

Player: "20"​

DM: "You silently pick the lock, what do you do?"​

Unfortunately, I'd get even odds of this happening instead:

DM: "... the door is locked"
Player: "11 to open"
DM: "You silently pick the lock but it fails, what do..."
Player, interrupting: "HEY! I didn't say I was going to pick the lock, that roll was for me trying to pry the latch open! Since that failed, I'm going to pick the lock. Sheesh, why are you telling me what my character is doing anyway?"
DM: (sigh)

That's why I prefer to let the player describe their actions first, then wait for me to ask for a roll. I find it's a lot cleaner way to handle the story, and it avoids certain arguments.

DM: "... the door is locked"
Player: "I'm going to try to quietly pick the lock"
DM: "Roll a Dexterity, Thieves Tools check."
Player: "Nice, eighteen!"
DM: "And now a Dexterity, Stealth check."
Player: "Uh-oh. Nine."
DM: "You open the lock, but you hear a low growl from the other side..."

 

[Swarmkeeper]

so what would you do when I ask can I use perception here? or if I asked "Oh can arcane skill help?" or "Can I use insight to see if they are hiding something?"
all of those are things I have said in the last year.

If those questions were in response to my describing the environment (Step 1 of the 5e Play Loop described on pg 6 of the PHB), I'd ask you to be clearer about what your character was trying to do (Step 2) so I, as DM, don't have to make assumptions for your character. If that directive was unclear, I might provide a few examples of what I might have a character do in a similar spot, but ultimately it would be up to you to be reasonably specific in describing what your character is doing in the scene.

So...
Perhaps "can I use perception here?" pivots to "my character wants to examine the wall by tapping with a club".
Maybe "oh can arcane skill help?" pivots to "I want to try to decipher the runes on the pedestal".
And "Can I use Insight to see if they are hiding something?" can simply be "my character feels like this tavern keeper is hiding something."

In any of those cases, the DM would either grant you information (auto-success), perhaps tell you the action is not possible (auto-failure), or ask you to roll an Ability Check with a particular skill in mind.

 

[overgeeked]

If those questions were in response to my describing the environment (Step 1 of the 5e Play Loop described on pg 6 of the PHB), I'd ask you to be clearer about what your character was trying to do (Step 2) so I, as DM, don't have to make assumptions for your character. If that directive was unclear, I might provide a few examples of what I might have a character do in a similar spot, but ultimately it would be up to you to be reasonably specific in describing what your character is doing in the scene.

So...
Perhaps "can I use perception here?" pivots to "my character wants to examine the wall by tapping with a club".
Maybe "oh can arcane skill help?" pivots to "I want to try to decipher the runes on the pedestal".
And "Can I use Insight to see if they are hiding something?" can simply be "my character feels like this tavern keeper is hiding something."

In any of those cases, the DM would either grant you information (auto-success), perhaps tell you the action is not possible (auto-failure), or ask you to roll an Ability Check with a particular skill in mind.

Exactly. The difference is interacting with the environment in-fiction instead of interacting with the mechanics on the character sheet.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think this is really a group dynamic thing. I am new and have to ask still if a skill can or can't be used, but I know people who were playing with the same DM they are now before I was born.

you actually have this down better then you thought, I don't personally like games that DMs tell you what you can and can not say (as long as you get your point across). It is a BIG pet peeve of mine when someone knows what you mean but wants you to rephrase it 'correctly' I call it "word games"

o what would you do when I ask can I use perception here? or if I asked "Oh can arcane skill help?" or "Can I use insight to see if they are hiding something?"
all of those are things I have said in the last year.

SOme DMs let it go, but some will not only do what I call "word games" to have you redeclair what you just did in a form they prefer, but some will ask you to leave the table if you do so often enough.

I have gone round and round with several here about it. I will say I would not have to be "asked" to leave after the second 'correction'.

 

[AmandaBarbarian]

Exactly. The difference is interacting with the environment in-fiction instead of interacting with the mechanics on the character sheet.

so if your player just wants to interact useing the mechanics then what?

 

[AmandaBarbarian]

I call it "word games"

I think I see why.

SOme DMs let it go, but some will not only do what I call "word games" to have you redeclair what you just did in a form they prefer, but some will ask you to leave the table if you do so often enough.

I have gone round and round with several here about it. I will say I would not have to be "asked" to leave after the second 'correction'.

okay, I am hoping you are overblowing this and no one is being kicked out of D&D for calling for skill checks? Maybe this is just one of those things that is more polarized on the internet then in real face to face world?