Ability Score Blues

yesnomu

First Post
A tiefling wizard with hellfire blood! That's a warmage build, you're violating all the established 'CharOp' conventions!


Yes that's a dig against the CharOp conventions, firewizard for the win.
Yeah... and then I take Icy Terrain and Color Spray for my encounters. So I'm not the best warmage I could be. On the other hand, I still hit a lot, and those are great debuffs. Especially when I mini-nova and use both of them with an AP.

And Scorching Burst is always fun...
 

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Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
I find that as long as you roll above 10 against a DEF the target isn't particularly strong in, you'll hit if you started with at least a 16 main stat. This is ok but not great since monster defenses go up an extra 2-4 points. You typically want at least another +1 boost to attack rolls by level 15 or so. A fighter, dagger rogue, kensai, battlefield archer, +3 weapon users, etc.

Also a character with a 16 main stat, many good stats, and good feat choices can be excellent with good leaders in the group.

A 16 is fine, but you have to be smart and have a decent group.

You really have 3 choices.

A 18, a 14 and dump the rest: You limit most of your feat choices until late game but your accuracy, base ability to fill your role power will be high.

2 16's and dump everthing else: You get the most out of your secondary ability, and get some feat strength.

Rounded abilities with a 16 in your primary: You gain a lot of feat strength but lose out on your build.
 
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Nail

First Post
Too many "generalities" in this thread now, methinks.

Your stat choices will be highly dependent on your class, race, feats, and other goals. Rule of thumb? Use whatever stat array you think best. ;)
 

Malicea

First Post
It closes nothing.

Having a +2 higher primary = +1 to hit & damage.
Compared to a damage boosting feat granting +1/+2/+3, for the price of a feat, it's much stronger .. so those can go in the trash.

What other feats do you mean? Stuff like spell focus can be qualified for with a minimum of fuss, whilst for weapon mastery feats you'd be pumping those stats anyway.

Bottom line: If you mean feats that improve your combat effectiveness, you'd never be as effective with a mediocre primary, regardless of feat choices.

Exactly this.

And for those who are spouting that you take a 'hit' to defenses, that's complete nonsense. Unless you are going up to a point-bought 18, you do not sacrifice any net points of defense at all. Even buying an 18 only sacrifices 1 point in net defenses, for certain classes that can really afford to work off only 2 stats (Rogue, some Fighters, some Wizards.)

+1 to hit and damage on all attack rolls far outweighs the benefit of +1 to a single defense.

But to the OP: Yes, I do in fact find myself being 'strapped' into picking the optimal race for a specific class/build. Having the wrong stat bonuses does cost you points in attack bonus as well as defenses.
 

Bond James Bond

First Post
16 is not fine.
Saying hitting on a 10 at level 1 is ok is aiming to hit on a 15 at level 30.
It never gets easier.

That is, if you play on your own or nobody in your gaming group picks one of the various powers over those 30 lvls which temporary buff your hit chance or lower the enemies defense.

With the right group, it always gets easier and a 16 is just fine imo :)
 

Mengu

First Post
It is hard to make blanket statements for whether you should start with a 16, 17, 18, 19, or 20 as your primary stat. Even from an optimization PoV, one could make arguments for each possibility.

I also don't see a huge problem buying an 18 as your primary stat if you aren't getting a racial bonus to it. Consider the dwarf fighter. You can start with

Str 18
Con 14
Dex 12
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 8

You are within striking distance of most any feat you may want by 4th level. Your reflex defense is suffering a bit, but you are making up for it with a shield.
 

Benimoto

First Post
Bottom line: If you mean feats that improve your combat effectiveness, you'd never be as effective with a mediocre primary, regardless of feat choices.

The point is that when you define a 16 as opposed to an 18 as "mediocre", you are blowing the importance of that extra +1 out of proportion.

There are feats, specifically a lot of the paragon tier feats like Heavy Blade Opportunity, Scale Mastery, Hammer Rhythm, Polearm Gamble, Shield Specialization, etc. that can define a whole character concept and how that character spends his/her time in combat. These feats are difficult for certain kinds of melee characters to get if they are focusing entirely on the stats that boost attack.

Similarly, if you want to pick a certain race, and that race means that you can only afford a 16 in your primary stat, it is going to be okay. It is only going to make a difference in hitting once in every 20 rolls. Meanwhile, you are playing that character all the time. Take the race you want.
 

from my playing experience being able to hit is the most important thing in 4e.
so - although I don't like it - your main stat should be 18+.
there aren't many things to get an attack bonus from, so your main stat must be high.

it's so effing frustrating when you burn your dailies and action points - and you miss.

AKW
 

from my playing experience being able to hit is the most important thing in 4e.
so - although I don't like it - your main stat should be 18+.
there aren't many things to get an attack bonus from, so your main stat must be high.

it's so effing frustrating when you burn your dailies and action points - and you miss.

AKW

and 1 of 20 dailies/ap fail because of that missing +1 to hit. and some of you say a feat is worthless if it comes to play only in 1 of 20 encounters... that is absolutely ridiculous...

some arguments for an 18 or even a 20 in a main stat are convinicing... but not this one... maybe the 1 square you shift your opponent farther because of your secondary stat beeing higher can make your life much easier... maybe the extra +1 bonus to attack all of your comrades get because you chose to have a higher intelligence will be more important...

in general, i would say: the best for you is what fits your character concept best...

(maybe you want that low wisdom score because you dont want to be wise... maybe your cleric needs 18 strength, because he wants to defend his faithful with a hammer...)

if you personally think, the 18 is important for your character, then put it there... i would do the same, but i wouldn´t pretend that it is frustrating to have a lower score in my main stat, because of a 5% chance that it could matter...
 

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