D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[dave2008]

They are being removed going forward, you won't see ASI on the new PC options in Strixhaven or what it's called.

I would say they are not being included. You can't remove something that didn't exist in the first place.

So for now, they are not reprinting existing books with altered racial ability scores. So truly nothing has been removed. Thank you for clearing that up. I honestly was not sure if they had made an announcement about reprint old books with the current paradigm.

 

[dave2008]

On that score, I'm absolutely of the opposite opinion. I very much dislike differing limits when comparing character options. I'd prefer that there be different costs to get there. I don't want to limit my players' potential end points on any stat by their choice of race, I want their choice to affect how they get there.

That sounds interesting, but doesn't quite feel right to me. As noted in my post, a PC can still get anywhere they want, they just need magic/supernatural means to get there.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Because such systems give you the flavor of all these things having bonuses (e.g. dwarves are strong and tough so they all get a bonus to strength and con) while still functionally allowing you to play the character you want to play without being at a disadvantage.

Doesn't really work for me. If the end result is not going to be different then just let 'dwarves are strong an tough' to be fluff, remove all ASIs from character creation and just let people put points where they want via buffed point buy.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

On that score, I'm absolutely of the opposite opinion. I very much dislike differing limits when comparing character options. I'd prefer that there be different costs to get there. I don't want to limit my players' potential end points on any stat by their choice of race, I want their choice to affect how they get there.

Increasing costs but no caps will just mean that halfling and goliath are equally strong (assuming they are of class than incentivises strength) but the halfling is actually worse at something completely else as they had to use more points to get that strength. It definitely doesn't lead to results I want.

I feel that caps with static costs is far better and that's how my homebrew works. An orc can get higher strength than an eldri (my small elf/halfling equivalent) but they both still pay the same price for the score they actually take, the orc just has an option to use more points and thus raise it higher. If an eldri gets strength 16 (their starting max) and an orc does the same and decides that 16 is enough (they could buy it up to18) they will pay the same point cost for it.

 

[Scribe]

So your character could be a dwarf rogue with the criminal background, and still get asi for dex and proficiency for stealth? I don't get how that makes your dwarf feel more like a dwarf at the table, other than you theoretically know you could have played a halfling rouge with an even larger initial dex advantage. No one is going to know or care about that difference in play. This is especially the case if your asi is just a +1, which might be totally meaningless given the way ability modifiers work.

There's additional restrictions or bonus based on your race selection, this was mostly the result of a very long discussion and what a compromise would look like, to me.

Functionally you are of course correct.
From a pseudo World building or systems approach it matters tome that the dwarf has a total +2 dex because of background and class, while they have +1 con (and additional bonus or limitations) by virtue of being a dwarf.

The important piece to me, is I want your race to have meaning at the crunch, and your background and class (profession) should as well.

 

[Scribe]

I honestly was not sure if they had made an announcement about reprint old books with the current paradigm.

I'm sure an anniversary 5e release, will have them removed.

 

[billd91]

Increasing costs but no caps will just mean that halfling and goliath are equally strong (assuming they are of class than incentivises strength) but the halfling is actually worse at something completely else as they had to use more points to get that strength. It definitely doesn't lead to results I want.

It's exactly the result I want. A halfling who wants to hit as hard as a goliath, who has an easier path, should feel the opportunity cost elsewhere because he had to concentrate harder on it.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It's exactly the result I want. A halfling who wants to hit as hard as a goliath, who has an easier path, should feel the opportunity cost elsewhere because he had to concentrate harder on it.

So the result you want is that a halfling fighter is just as strong as a goliath one, but less dexterous? This doesn't really make sense to me...

What I want is niche protection. That if the player decides to focus on the thing their PC's species is known for, they are guaranteed to be best in the party at it.

 

[billd91]

So the result you want is that a halfling fighter is just as strong as a goliath one, but less dexterous? This doesn't really make sense to me...

What I want is niche protection. That if the player decides to focus on the thing their PC's species is known for, they are guaranteed to be best in the party at it.

It's more a question of he's been taking strength increases rather than feats or increases in other stats as he levels up because that's what his goal is. Maybe he's less dexterous than another halfling who chose to develop in that direction, maybe it's something else. Maybe he realizes he doesn't have to work on his footwork as much because he's already got a natural advantage in that over the goliath, so he just maintains his level there and works on his strength building.
Either way, if he wants it, that option is available to him even if it is a bit more expensive.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would say they are not being included. You can't remove something that didn't exist in the first place.

So for now, they are not reprinting existing books with altered racial ability scores. So truly nothing has been removed. Thank you for clearing that up. I honestly was not sure if they had made an announcement about reprint old books with the current paradigm.

They will eventually reprint the PH races. When they do, they absolutely will remove racial ASIs and bring them in line with the new format. I dont even see that as a question. The decision has been made. That is what I and others are talking about, imo.