Ability scores in the real world

[jester47]

WRT standardised testing:

Some tests actually test wisdom, while others test Intelligence. IQ is often mistaken for Intelligence while in D&D terms it tests wisdom. Wisdom is using what you know, and intelligence is sheer capacity of memory and speed of thought.

Edited cause I moved my stats o the What is your Level? Thread.


Aaron.

 

[Xeriar]

Many good points have been made.

D&D doesn't make much sense, anyway. The range 3-18 does not cover the whole of human ability by any stretch of the term, many many people should have a score of int, wis or cha in the 20+ range.

 

[Wolfen Priest]

The one thing I most appreciated about the 2e Skills & Powers Supplements was the 'breakdown' of the abilities, which more often than not did make a lot of sense. The one in particular, which I was honestly quite surprised not to find in 3e, was the breakdown of Dexterity into (a) balance, and (b) aim.

Personally, I would like to see Dexterity broken down into two abilities (I consider more aptly named): Agility, and Coordination.

Take someone like Babe Ruth. One of the greatest baseball players of all time. He could hit a baseball better than almost any given set of 216 people, if not more, right? However, do you think he could walk a tightrope? I doubt it. Ever watch those bowhunting guys shoot a bow? Simply amazing accuracy. Often, (from what I've seen) they are very heavy, and don't seem like they would be particularly difficult to hit in a 'melee' fight. IOW, they are great with a bow, but are not physically graceful or agile.

Now, look at a guy like Jackie Chan. Nimble, quick, with a very low 'Armor Class,' right? Yet, he's really no good at baseball, basketball, and those kinds of activities. I really doubt he would get any bonus whatsoever for a ranged attack. If you care to quibble with this point, then consider that such a person is certainly possible, right?

I'm so convinced that these two 'abilites' are different (even more so than the other S&P ones like intuition and willpower, frex) that I've been very tempted to change the rules myself, except that it would obviously involve a lot of tinkering.

For example, the skill Hide may require Agility (as I call it), but what about picking a lock? Is that really Coordination? Is that even dexterity-related at all, or more related to Wisdom or perhaps even intelligence? Soon a person could find him/herself totally overwhelmed with so many questions and house-rules based on such a simple thing as this, really, that one finds it really isn't worth it, for a game that is barely able to 'mimic' reality in the first place.

Just some thoughts on the subject.

 

[Wicht]

Hmm, I was a finalist in the national merit scholarship. I always assumed I had a 16 intelligence. Its kind of nice to have someone mathmatically prove it to be higher

 

[Wolfen Priest]

To those who base intelligence on academic performance and/or quantifying tests: what about someone like Vincent Van Gogh? Many will agree he was a 'genius.' Yet, likely, no IQ test or academic performance trackers would have ever identified him as such.

What about Edgar Allen Poe? Miles Davis?

None of the heretofore mentioned 'intelligence'-measuring criteria account for creativity in any meaningful way.

 

[Vaxalon]

National Merit Scholars and Mensa members have four ranks in "Taking standardized texts". This throws off the curve.

Einstein was a 20th level expert with an intelligence of 23, 23 ranks and skill focus (theoretical physics), and the "Absent minded professor" feat which gives +2 to all academic skills but -20 to all skills related to ordinary tasks such as tying shoelaces and remembering to go to the barber.

 

[Zigmutt]

also- numbers don't mean much- and genius is a term that we give topeople who we think have made great discoveries and provided science (or any other field) with valuable knowledge.

But it is subjective to time and place. We call Einstein a genius now, a great mathematician, but he failed forth grade Math- what does that mean?

well nothing in hindsight. we can say that he was bored in class- or that he was not challenged enough,or that the simple math was not stimulating enough for his great mind- but the truth of it is- he failed math. do youknow how hard it is to fail? you can walk to clas everyday, and as long as you make believe you are doing something, youwill pass- mind you maybe with a D, but still pass. he failed- which meant that his teacher thought he did not/ could not understand the basics of math to pass him to the next grade...

and other "geniuses" liek van gogh, Picasso, Dickenson, are all masters in their field- but will a tests ever see that? that is the bane of standardized testing- they tell you what you should already know:
Chester is good at math, Lydia can spell at a fifth grade level, Bob can speak four different languages- butit can never grade imagination, ingenuity, ability to think on the spot, and all that other stuff that makes McGuiver the greatest hero in a kid's mind cause he may not be a doctor- or lawyer, but he can do anything with just a pen and some toilet paper. that is a genius.

 

[Xeriar]

But it is subjective to time and place. We call Einstein a genius now, a great mathematician, but he failed forth grade Math- what does that mean?

That is an urban legend IIRC, he failed art or something like that.

Regardless, I think Einstein falls into the category of 'epic' expert

 

[pensiv]

actually, Einstein never had much of a head for math. What he did was think. He did that a lot and about a lot of subjects, most famously physics. In fact, he didn't even write the equations for his most famous theories. He conceptualized the theory and then turned it over to physicist friends of him to work out the math of it.

Einstein was a creative genius that wasn't strong in math, but still had a transcendent grasp of the way the universe works.

Remember that when someone tells you that you can't understand physics without understanding mathematics.

 

[Vaxalon]

Omokage, some people understand things in different ways.

Make no mistake, Einstein understood mathematics. Did he understand them in the same pedestrian way as the rest of us? No.

But he never would have been able to do anything without understanding it.