AC 56 at level 6! You too can do it!

[Deset Gled]

I gotta be honest, If I wanted to powergame, I'd just build a Pun-Pun. Realistically, no DM worth his salt is ever going to allow such silliness in a game.

Exactly. This is why I think it's so silly to be talking about ridiculously high AC power builds when the original arguement that started this thread was about whether AC or hit bonuses grew faster. It doesn't matter who can build the most uber build for AC or for attack bonuses (Pun-Pun can do an infinite amount of both, IIRC). It does matter what the average character will have.

At level 6, I would expect a well equiped fighter (or cleric, etc) to have full plate armor, and a heavy sheild, for an AC bonus of +10. They might have another +1 from Dex, and +4 from buffs. This is about a 25 AC. It is certainly possible to get much higher, but only when you make a build specifially for it, or spend a lot of time and resources buffing.

A level 6 warrior should have a +6 BAB, at least +3 from an ability score, a +1 weapon enhancement bonus, and about +4 from various feats or buffs. This is a total to hit of +14, which lets him hit AC 25 about half the time. Seems to me that these numbers are pretty balanced at low levels.

 

[Lamoni]

Not difficult. We had such a sorcerer... he used that Sonic Orb thingie. Simply blasted everything away.

I played a sorcerer with AC 12 up to level 17 (that is when our campaign ended). I would have volunteered to have it lower, but with my 12 Dex and small size it was a 12. To survive, he usually relied on his HP (18 Con) and used fly or spells that added a miss chance when he felt threatened.

One of the more entertaining parts of that game was how often the bad guys missed my character (before I used any spells). It doesn't matter how high the BAB is when you roll a 1. Just like it doesn't matter how high the AC is when a 20 is rolled.

 

[Nail]

It doesn't matter who can build the most uber build for AC or for attack bonuses (Pun-Pun can do an infinite amount of both, IIRC). It does matter what the average character will have.

True.

For the most part I've found that well-played PCs have Atk bonuses that rise faster than either PC or NPC ACs. That's with buffs and magic items all-round....and a few "optimizer"-type players.

I've yet to see any PCs with an AC out of reach.

 

[Darklone]

I played a sorcerer with AC 12 up to level 17 (that is when our campaign ended). I would have volunteered to have it lower, but with my 12 Dex and small size it was a 12. To survive, he usually relied on his HP (18 Con) and used fly or spells that added a miss chance when he felt threatened.

One of the more entertaining parts of that game was how often the bad guys missed my character (before I used any spells). It doesn't matter how high the BAB is when you roll a 1. Just like it doesn't matter how high the AC is when a 20 is rolled.

Good point, one we forgot here.

I've had two PCs with high AC (fighting defensively+C-Expertise) go down after several rounds between hordes of mooks who rolled the 20 (or perhaps a 19) often enough. Aid another shouldn't be underestimated if used by 6 or more level 4-6 warriors or fighters surrounding a level 10 PC.

 

[Slaved]

I like my old warforged monk in a now defunct game. At level 6 he would normally be sporting a sub 10 AC in combat but if there was trouble he would shoot up to nearly 30. The first time I made the shift the dm nearly choked, he had expected me to die to the horde on me that turn.

 

[pallandrome]

This would be why my wizards always have chain contengency on me to activate buffs when I cast Tensors on myself (assuming, yanno, that they are high enough to do so). I've really REALLY surprised a few fighter classes that way.

 

[hanniball]

I've yet to see any PCs with an AC out of reach.

Have you seen this?

I gotta be honest, If I wanted to powergame, I'd just build a Pun-Pun. Realistically, no DM worth his salt is ever going to allow such silliness in a game.

Pun-Pun is not meant to be played. It is an entirely theoretical exercise and, you're right, no DM should allow it. However, this is not a powergaming exercise. If you wanted to optimize AC what would you play?

This is why I think it's so silly to be talking about ridiculously high AC power builds when the original arguement that started this thread was about whether AC or hit bonuses grew faster. It doesn't matter who can build the most uber build for AC or for attack bonuses (Pun-Pun can do an infinite amount of both, IIRC). It does matter what the average character will have.

While fairly true, you must also consider that when determining which game mechanic can generate higher numbers, it is important to include maximums. Your definition of 'average' may vary significantly from that of another player. Therefore, using the rules laid before us, determining which ability more 'easily' produces higher values is the purpose of the thread and high-AC builds should be taken into account.

Either way...just my 2 cp

 

[DungeonMaester]

Ive seen a monk with 30 ac at first level uysing the Sacred Vows for BoED.

Of course, with 8 hp, if some one hits with a Crit (the one way to hit him) He is dead. DEAD DEAD.

--Rusty

 

[Nail]

Have you seen this?

When those become PCs in my game or another game I read about, I'll change my original statement.

Until then, I've yet to see a Player Character with that kind of AC.

 

[hanniball]

When those become PCs in my game or another game I read about, I'll change my original statement.

Until then, I've yet to see a Player Character with that kind of AC.

Ah, I see...stupid semantics