AC 56 at level 6! You too can do it!

[Beckett]

This thread is making me see the value of using Core Rules Only. I imagine that the maximum AC at 6th level would be considerably lower, then.

This thread is making me see the value of having a firm hand when DMing.

"And then I Alter Self into a Dwarf Ancestor for the +18..."
*Smack*

Or, to quote from one of my friends on an unrelated, but appropriate matter, "Yes, but how would we carry that massive wheel of cheese?"

 

[Psion]

This thread is making me see the value of having a firm hand when DMing.

Yup.

When compared to pun-pun, getting 56 AC is not especially impressive. Given the great variety of books out there, some power-gamey combos are possible. That some power gamers feel the need to abuse that is regretable, but mostly correctable.

There is a reason RPGs have a GM. And a reason DMs should not be afraid to take charge of their game.

 

[Sejs]

This thread is making me see the value of using Core Rules Only. I imagine that the maximum AC at 6th level would be considerably lower, then.

Hmm. For a one-shot, using higher CL scrolls of Magic Vestment you could get it up reasonably high. Assuming no use of polymorph or alter self.

Full Plate (+4, via CL 16 Magic Vestment): +12 armor
Heavy Shield (+4, via CL 16 Magic Vestment): +6 shield
Dex of 13: +1 dex mod
Dodge feat: +1 dodge
Combat Expertise for full: +4 dodge
Shield of Faith or Protection from Evil: +2 deflection
Barkskin (plant domain): +3 natural
+1 defending weapon (+4, via CL 16 GMW): +4 unnamed

That gets you upwards of 43 AC, but it requires several rounds of preperation and a number of one-shot, high CL items to pull off. Alter Self would net you an additional +6 natural armor by turning into a troglodite.

 

[Crothian]

Alter Self would net you an additional +6 natural armor by turning into a troglodite.

But you'd smell!!

 

[Quartz]

You seem to forget that I already replied to this objection:

Perhaps you'd care to read the creature description, then? Specifically

A dwarf ancestor is the spirit of an ancient dwarf hero brought back from the afterlife to serve by the will and prayers of a dwarf cleric. It comes to those who plead to Moradin the Soul Forger for aid. When first summoned, a dwarf ancestor takes up residence within a statue of a dwarf hero, animating it.

Please note that last line, 'statue of a dwarven hero'.

Please also note the first line too: 'A dwarf ancestor is the spirit of'. Last time I checked, Alter Self and Change Self couldn't make you incorporeal.

 

[Darklone]

Hannibal, I like your cleric6 stuff.... it's nearly all PHB right?

It's expensive to pull off... but looks cool. Even if something might be wrong, that turtle deserves the name.

 

[Iku Rex]

Perhaps you'd care to read the creature description, then?.

I have. Perhaps you would care to read the actual game mechanical categorization of the creature? I've posted it twice already: "Always LG Large outsider (native)".

Please note that last line, 'statue of a dwarven hero'.

Please also note the first line too: 'A dwarf ancestor is the spirit of'. Last time I checked, Alter Self and Change Self couldn't make you incorporeal.

The part about "animating spirit" is just flavor text. The dwarf ancestor is not incorporeal. It is a native outsider. It needs to eat. It bleeds. It has vital organs. Keep it up all night with rowdy drinking songs and it gets sluggish.

Since you're so hung up on the flavor text: "[A dwarf ancestor] defends dwarven halls with grim determination, and it does not retreat or give quarter. It fights until destroyed or until those dwarves it is protecting are safe."

What is "defending dwarven halls"? What "fights until destroyed"? A corporeal native outsider or a bodiless spirit?

Would you allow someone to change shape into a demon? After all, demons are basically the bodiless souls of dead mortals given physical shape? Golems? Golems are animated by bodiless spirits from the elemental planes. What about creatures that are dead bodies animated by a spirit/soul?

 

[Sejs]

I have. Perhaps you would care to read the actual game mechanical categorization of the creature? I've posted it twice already: "Always LG Large outsider (native)".

The part about "animating spirit" is just flavor text. The dwarf ancestor is not incorporeal. It is a native outsider. It needs to eat. It bleeds. It has vital organs. Keep it up all night with rowdy drinking songs and it gets sluggish.

*blink.. blink*

You know, you're right.

And the creature description doesn't say anything about being immune to the more fleshy concerns that you would expect to be included with being a possessed stone statue.

Dear god this is a poorly thought out creature. It's an animated statue... but it's an outsider, it has no crit immunity, thus (for example) it's vulnerable to Wounding weapons. What in the sam hell does a statue bleed? It needs to breathe for crap's sake. You can drown a statue. Aargh! >_<

 

[Rhun]

I have to agree with Iku Rex that flavor text does not override game mechanics.

That said, though, I would never allow it in a game I was DMing.

 

[Squire James]

Frankly, I think 99% of this high-AC nonesense happens because Polymorph effects can grant huge chunks of natural AC. Fortunately, my players show no interest in Polymorph abuse, and if they did I'd have to take measures. Like declaring all magical items are absorbed into the new form whether it happens to be humanoid or not.

Actually, I think WotC should nix Polymorph as a spell and keep it as a sub-type. Then all they need to do is make sure the ridiculous forms are sufficiently high-level spells. In exchange, make some weaker forms that can be used by low-level casters.