AC vs. reflex and what is what

[KarinsDad]

Won't it be some kind of variation off of SWSE? AC will be some kind of combo of armor, dex, experience (level based AC progression) with armor giving reduced benefits unless you have the feats or talents to keep it viable?

I hope not. This set of rules is SWSE specific (and a bit lame), so I suspect that it will not stay in 4E.

Remember in SWSE, the characters on the screen rarely wear armor. Attacks are supposed to miss a lot, even if the character is not wearing armor. There is a reason for that rule. In 4E, characters will often wear armor. People will houserule it a lot if they use the same mechanic.

 

[Lackhand]

Won't it be some kind of variation off of SWSE? AC will be some kind of combo of armor, dex, experience (level based AC progression) with armor giving reduced benefits unless you have the feats or talents to keep it viable? So for a rogue AC and Reflex will be around the same number since their AC is essentially representing their ability to dodge out of the way, while a sword and board fighter will have a much higher AC than reflex since they'll be encased in protective magical steel with a huge shield to deflect arrows (and in 4e apparently fireballs and falling rocks), but still a big target to zap with a magical ray.

edit: Scooped, by KarinsDad! ::shakes fist::

Sorta. The problem is that armor is a Star Wars negative trope: nobody wears it, it's bad for you. D&D models the opposite.

It's possible that that's the model that will be chosen, but we pretty explicitly can't use the SWSE rules here, because they're tuned wrong. Well-justified modifications of the Saga rules are a different matter, o'course!

 

[captaincursor]

True, SWSE was tuned to make characters not often wear armor, and D&D characters are supposed to wear armor. However each of the classes are supposed to wear their own type of armor. Fighters and Paladins in scale and full plate, clerics and warlord in chain, rangers and druids in feral hide, rogues and warlocks in leather, wizards in cloth. So I don't think that it will be inconceivable that the mechanics of how they enforce that armor choice is going to be similar, but not identical to the mechanic they used in SWSE. Or at least closer to that mechanic than to the 3e mechanic for enforcing armor.

But I've only read through SWSE and not played it, so perhaps it was bad and they're going to abandon it wholesale.

 

[Dragonbait]

I thought I read somewhere that ranged attacks will be against someone's Reflex defense rather than AC?

 

[Oldtimer]

I thought I read somewhere that ranged attacks will be against someone's Reflex defense rather than AC?

I know they've said that touch attacks will be against Reflex rather than AC, but ranged attacks also? I don't think so.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I hope that big giant creature have attacks versus Reflex Defense, not AC. I can see how you'd dive out of the way of a T-Rex's attack, in much the same way I can't see someone deflecting it with plate armor.

i also hope that giants have big sweeping exaggerated attacks, as opposed to their precise and deadly attacks in D&D3.5.

 

[jester47]

You just helped fix a major house rule problem for me. Thanks.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I thought I read somewhere that ranged attacks will be against someone's Reflex defense rather than AC?

You might be mistaking/misremembering some discussion on the basis of the spined devil card awhile back.

I've not seen anything to substantiate that rumour (and I don't think it makes any sense as a concept either).

Cheers

 

[kodyboy]

Bump

 

[frankthedm]

Image a wonderful world where rays all got turned into Save:Reflex Negate

Basically in 4e, your reflex save bonus, rather than just your dex bonus, would be added to your unarmored AC. Special attacks will work like normal attacks in that the Offender will be rolling to hit{Stat+level based bonus] the defender's defense DC{Stat+level based bonus+10]. The odds will work mostly the same way, though the attacker is the one who does all the rolling.

The 3E barbarian has at 6th level
12 Touch AC {Dex+10]
17 AC {Dex+armor+10]
+8 Fort {Con+level based bonus]
+4 Reflex {Dex+level based bonus]
+2 Will {Wis+level based bonus]

The 4E barbarian at 6th level might have
19 AC {Reflex defense + armor]
18 Fort defense{Con+level based bonus+10]
14 Reflex defense{Dex+level based bonus+10]
12 Will defense{Wis+level based bonus+10]