Acquisitions Inc. switching to Daggerheart

[Aldarc]

I am not convinced that there IS a "mass market" for TTRPGs outside of D&D -- and that I basically attribute to inertia. RPGs are cool, fun games that lots of people are likely to try and maybe even stick with for a while. But I think the dedicated 40 year fan is the rarity. D&D is the kleenex of TTRPGs so, when new players want to give the hobby a try, they (generally) try D&D.

Yeah, don't see why everyone is treating Daggerheart (or many other TTRPGs for that matter) as "D&D killer or bust."

 

[kermit4karate]

But you haven't really given reasons, just a vague belief that it requires more from players than D&D -- despite, by your own admission, you not having played it (or even read it, it seems).

I am not saying DH definitely has legs, but the reason you gave does not really exist.

Hey now, I gave reasons. Maybe they weren't sufficient for you, but I gave them. No point in repeating since you clearly disagree. Not like you're on the fence about it and another 1,000 words from me would change your mind, right?

I gave a quick opinion. That's all it was. Daggerheart = fad.

 

[Reynard]

I gave a quick opinion. That's all it was. Daggerheart = fad.

Sure. You do you. Usually when folks post such things on a discussion board, tho, I assume they want to, you know, discuss it.

 

[Aldarc]

I bought Shadowdark from a game store where they said they couldn't keep it in stock. Selling like hotcakes.

Think it's selling outside the Kickstarter.

I bet $2 it's still chugging along a year from now while most Daggerheart players will have moved on to something else.

Fad IMO but time will tell.

That's just because Shadowdark is a fad. Why should I even play Shadowdark when D&D 5e exists?

 

[kermit4karate]

Yeah, don't see why everyone is treating Daggerheart (or many other TTRPGs for that matter) as "D&D killer or bust."

Others may have done that, but that's not what I did. I just said it was a fad, soon to be relegated to the niche dustbin of history.

But seriously, lots of room at most game stores in the stock room or a storage unit for PoD games and vintage collectable Kickstarter-type things....

Ha! Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[nyvinter]

Shadowdark has a smaller core rulebook, an easier hook to explain (torch time), solid execution of a simple premise, smaller and cheaper to print and ship, and it builds upon the most popular TTRPG in the history of the world.

Which is great for some but for others the idea Shadowdark rest on — dungeon crawl — is really boring. It's fine for oneshots but nothing substantial.

Different games for different folks. Mythic Bastionland seems far more interesting to me, but that's also superniche. And that fine. Comparing everything to D&D is how we all lose.

 

[Aldarc]

Daggerheart is currently quite popular. I recognize that. I did call it a fad though and stand behind it. Merely my opinion.

Before the angry mob forms, I'll point out that I didn't eviscerate Daggerheart. I've never even played it, just watched a few videos.

I didn't say that I thought it was garbage, but I don't see it having mainstream staying power for the reasons I've already given.

Others may have done that, but that's not what I did. I just said it was a fad, soon to be relegated to the niche dustbin of history.

Maybe you haven't eviscerated Daggerheart, but you do seem to be here to throw as much shade at it as you can while trying to dismiss the game as being anything other than a fad.

This was great! You deserve extra emojis for leaving one of the most reasonable, thoughtful comments I've read in days.

Too bad you can't do the same when it comes to Daggerheart. Don't know why you seem so eager for it to fail despite not having read or played it.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I am not convinced that there IS a "mass market" for TTRPGs outside of D&D -- and that I basically attribute to inertia. RPGs are cool, fun games that lots of people are likely to try and maybe even stick with for a while. But I think the dedicated 40 year fan is the rarity. D&D is the kleenex of TTRPGs so, when new players want to give the hobby a try, they (generally) try D&D.

I have posted repeatedly why I think that this is a ... poor analysis, and it substitutes ipse dixit reasoning (D&D is the biggest because D&D is the biggest, therefore D&D is the biggest) for any kind of useful information.

What does that mean? We know that D&D was first ... but it wasn't foreordained to be #1. It had a lot of competition early. It had a lot of struggles in terms of the company. It had several fallow periods. It had various noteworthy competitors. And the product has varied over time (TSR-era D&D is not the same as 3e is not the same as 4e is not the same as 5e).

I prefer to think of "why" something is the way it is. For example, I can talk about a lot of different industries, and I can explain why something might continue to succeed even in an undifferentiated market (usually due to advertising, brand loyalty, selective adoption of changes, etc.) and why it doesn't (disruption due to competitors, price competition, use of inferior materials when making it, etc.).

To me, the question of "why" makes the question interesting, because it can lead to actual conversations about design decisions- not just optimal design decisions, but also design constraints. This is what I often see lacking in a lot of conversations about TTRPGs- people ignore the actual market for a game, assuming X market (people like them, people they play with, an idealized consumer) as opposed to what the mass market might actually want.

Put another way- if I was a car designer, I wouldn't design pickup trucks. Yet I look around the road, and what do people keep buying? Pickup trucks.

EDIT- and this is why I think Daggerheart (and Shadowdark, and other games) always present interesting examples. Actual sales? They are revealed preferences. If Daggerheart is wildly successful, that will tell us a lot about what the mass market wants now, right?

 

[kermit4karate]

Maybe you haven't eviscerated Daggerheart, but you do seem to be here to throw as much shade at it as you can while trying to dismiss the game as being anything other than a fad.

Too bad you can't do the same when it comes to Daggerheart. Don't know why you seem so eager for it to fail despite not having read or played it.

I'm not eager for it to fail, and I didn't throw much shade. Just a tad. A quick soundbite on a forum doesn't constitute "much shade." I said my piece. It could end there.

People vigorously antangonizing others who have different opinions seems to be a thing, though.

 

[Aldarc]

I'm not eager for it to fail, and I didn't throw much shade. Just a tad. A quick soundbite on a forum doesn't constitute "much shade." I said my piece. It could end there.

People vigorously antangonizing others who have different opinions seems to be a thing, though.

So a little bit of pushback on differing opinions counts as "vigorously antangonizing [sic] others" nowadays? If you can't even stand a light heat, then you better get out of the kitchen while you can.