AD&D1 giants

[Quasqueton]

In the AD&D1 Monster Manual, giants had hit dice of “X +Y-Z”

For instance, hill giants were HD: 8 +1-2. What did this mean?

A) 8 HD, plus 1 to 2 hit points
B) 9 to 10 HD

And I think fire giants were HD: 11 +2-5.

A) 11 HD, plus 1d4+1 hit points
B) 13 to 16 HD


When I DMed AD&D1, I went with the “A” answer. But I thought that a weird way of giving HD. Now, looking back over my books recently, I’m thinking I had it wrong.

Quasqueton

 

[Endur]

A is correct. 8d8 plus 1-2 hit points.

Its not only giants. Everything in the Monster Manual followed that approach.

Hobgoblins were Hit Dice 1+1, i..e 1d8 +1 hit point.

Goblins were Hit Dice 1-1, i.e. 1d8-1 hit point.

 

[thedungeondelver]

In the AD&D1 Monster Manual, giants had hit dice of “X +Y-Z”

For instance, hill giants were HD: 8 +1-2. What did this mean?

A) 8 HD, plus 1 to 2 hit points
B) 9 to 10 HD

And I think fire giants were HD: 11 +2-5.

A) 11 HD, plus 1d4+1 hit points
B) 13 to 16 HD


When I DMed AD&D1, I went with the “A” answer. But I thought that a weird way of giving HD. Now, looking back over my books recently, I’m thinking I had it wrong.

Quasqueton

It's B. This basically gives a low-end minimum so you don't wind up with a hill giant with, say, only eight hit points (although in random encounters I split the difference and give exactly average hits plus the modifier, and obviously in preplanned encounters I go with what's written or if I've generated the encounter myself, I dice for it and add the modifier).

I used to think "8+1 HD" = 9 HD, too.

EDIT: I see what I did. I posted in haste, and was thinking that he was saying that the upper of the two sets of two choices was "A" and the lower of the two sets of choices was "B"...I just plain skimmed the question...!

Obviously, 8+1 to 2 is eight hit dice, plus an additional one to two hit points.

 

[diaglo]

It's B. This basically gives a low-end minimum so you don't wind up with a hill giant with, say, only eight hit points (although in random encounters I split the difference and give exactly average hits plus the modifier, and obviously in preplanned encounters I go with what's written or if I've generated the encounter myself, I dice for it and add the modifier).

I used to think "8+1 HD" = 9 HD, too.

d00d, it is A. hill giant 8 HD + 1 to 2 hps for a male. 6hd for a female. and ogre hd for the kids.

 

[thedungeondelver]

d00d, it is A. hill giant 8 HD + 1 to 2 hps for a male. 6hd for a female. and ogre hd for the kids.

I know.

 

[Quasqueton]

Its not only giants. Everything in the Monster Manual followed that approach.

Hobgoblins were Hit Dice 1+1, i..e 1d8 +1 hit point.

Goblins were Hit Dice 1-1, i.e. 1d8-1 hit point.

I know about 1+1, 1-1, 4+1 (ogres), 6+6 (trolls), etc. But giants were the only one (to my memory, right now) that had a range after the plus.

And I know that the "+1" after the HD put the monster attacking one "level" better on the to-hit matrix (and for XP). But for those purposes, "8+1" would have been sufficient. the "1-2" part just seems weird -- *one* more hit point in 8 hit dice just doesn't seem worth noting. And for the fire giant, with 11 HD, another 2-5 hit points seems unnecessary.

Plus, for the giant listings, it seems that there is a space between the base hit die and the plus: "HD: 8_+1-2". The hobgoblins, ogres, and trolls didn't have a space before the plus sign.

Now, you may be right (then I would have been originally right, too), but just basing the answer on hoboblins and goblins doesn't seem to consider everything.

Quasqueton

 

[diaglo]

Giants had a variable +hp.

but there were others that had more than +1.

Trolls 6+6
Ogre Mage 5+2
and so on...

 

[thedungeondelver]

Giants had a variable +hp.

but there were others that had more than +1.

Trolls 6+6
Ogre Mage 5+2
and so on...

The dreaded juju zombie has 4+13 !

(as a DM I loves me some juju zombies!)

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

the "1-2" part just seems weird -- *one* more hit point in 8 hit dice just doesn't seem worth noting. And for the fire giant, with 11 HD, another 2-5 hit points seems unnecessary.

Yes, but this is 1e, where weird departures from the norm are, well, normal.

For me it's part of the charm of the system, although I don't doubt that someone will chime in shortly to tell me that all these exceptions are un-fun, arbitrary, wrong, bad, and in fact completely evil.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Yes, but this is 1e, where weird departures from the norm are, well, normal.

For me it's part of the charm of the system, although I don't doubt that someone will chime in shortly to tell me that all these exceptions are un-fun, arbitrary, wrong, bad, and in fact completely evil.

Elegant, Stuart. It's not elegant.