Adjusted Half-Giant

[MaxKaladin]

I've got a player who wants to play a half-giant in an upcoming campaign. We're not using psionics in this game, so he'd like to adjust the race as follows:

1. Change the favored class from 'Psychic Warrior" to "Fighter"
2. Remove the "Stomp" ability.
3. Remove the Bonus Power Points
4. Remove the Fire Resistance
5. Add a free feat from the list of "Great Fortitude", "Endurance" or either a player made feat called "Broad Shoulders" that lets the character carry 1/3 more weight than their strength would allow for a medium creature or the "Pack Mule" feat from the Netbook of Feats that lets you carry loads as if your strength was two points higher.
6. Change the ECL from +1 to +0

I wonder if this is balanced for ECL 0. I'm inclined to think that the "Powerful Build" is the big deal for a Half-Giant since it will let them use Large weapons for much greater damage than Medium weapons. I think I calculated that in the case of a Great Axe this would net you an extra four points of damage per swing on average (since the medium one does 1d12 and, if I read the chart right, the large one does 3d6).

So, is this balanced for an ECL +0? If not, what makes it worth ECL +1?

How many people have actually used half-giants and what effect has "Powerful Build" had in actual play?

 

[Sravoff]

what are there attribute changes? I don't have the expanded scionics book.
If not to high I wouls say probably a ecl of 0. Though I woud drop the extra feats.

-Sravoff

 

[MaxKaladin]

+2 Constitution, +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity

 

[Timeron Malachi]

Having played one or two large characters, plus two character with large build, I can tell you that Large Build is worth a +1 ECL.

One character is a barbarian/fighter who's total level is 6...he's a Goliath from Races of Stone...he uses a Large Maul, and with Leap Attack, he's totally devestating.

My half-giant uses a bastard sword and tower shield...he's more defensively minded, but he holds his own quite well.

If you're doing non-psionics games (which you should be IMO) the changes you suggest to the Half-Giant make sense, but they are still pretty powerful.

If you go by the guidelines layed out in Savage Species, it says that unbalanced ability scores are worth a +1 ECL. Since he gets +2 Str and Con, and only a -2 Dex, that accounts for ECL right there.

 

[IcyCool]

+2 Constitution, +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity

Unbalanced ability scores is worth LA all on its own, as per Savage Species.

 

[Nyaricus]

i got a question for you MaxKaladin. what kind of campaign are you using, and what base giant races are you using? simply because i think you should start from scratch here, because the half-giant from EPH is from the Dark Sun CS, adn is flavored (accordingly) towards it.

then, when you gimme some nifo, i can help you amke a base race from scratch, no prob , even if you decide to just go with the race you are using now, you might switch in a new one later

 

[Spatzimaus]

Ignore the Savage Species rules, they stink. An extra +2 to one stat isn't nearly enough to bump up LA by 1. I personally like Soldarin's ECL system (you can Google it) much better, although he never updated it to 3.5E AFAIK.

That being said, no, I wouldn't give it to him as ECL +0 as is. It's just far, far too much. Compare to the Half-Orc, for instance; better stats, bigger weapons, more special abilities... sure, some people argue the Half-Orc's a bit underpowered, but this is still just too much. ECL 0 races tend to be balanced stats with a few minor abilities tacked on. Powerful Build isn't a minor ability (I'd call it half of an LA), and unbalanced stats can't just be ignored. The Stomp, resistance, and power point bonuses are just too minor to be worth anything. A 1/day low-level power and 2 bonus power points is nearly worthless even if you DO have psionics in your campaign.

If you want an ECL 0 race it's got to have some drawbacks to offset any good abilities you give. This is especially true if you're making a race biased towards a single profession, like Fighter. And the Half-Giant just doesn't; it has no real drawbacks at all. The immunity to spells like hold person isn't a minor perk, and Powerful Build is a big plus. Other than those, all the race has going for it is the unbalanced stats and the free Feat you're giving. If you were to remove Powerful Build, there'd be nothing left of the original race.


Since this is the House Rules forum, I'll give you the ECL 0 Half-Ogre race we added to my campaign well before we ever saw the official 3E version, based on a discussion we had on this board. The stats were like this:
> Medium, speed 30'.
> STR +4, DEX -2, CON +2, INT -2, WIS -2, CHA -4. (By the book definitions, these are balanced stats.)
> Gets the Endurance feat for free.
> Natural Armor +2
> Darkvision 60'
> Ogrish Blood: anything that affects creature type "giant" (or Ogres specifically) also affects the Half-Ogre, but you are still also vulnerable to anything that affects Humans (like Charm person)
> Mundane armor and equipment is 50% larger. In general, this requires the items to be custom-made, which costs more (DM's call, usually double).
> Can wield all the "half-size" weapons (Bastard Sword, Fullblade, Dwarven Waraxe, etc.) as if one size larger. Other weapons are unaffected.
> +4 to any CHA-based skill checks that take advantage of the frightful appearance (Intimidate, or certain Bluff or Gather Information checks), but -2 to all other interaction-based CHA skills.
> Favored Class: NONE. (That's right, if you want to multiclass, keep it balanced.)

And in our experience, this has worked well as an ECL 0 race. Looking back, we probably should have given bonuses to Bull Rush, Grapple, etc., but it's worked well as-is.

 

[Tetsubo]

I've never been happy with a Half-Giant concept that had less than a +4 Strength. They're Half-GIANTS. A Half-Orc gets a +2... a Gaint bloodline should be worth more than that. I'd suggest a three level Paragon Half-Giant class. Let the player build up to Large and a +4 Stength...

 

[Drowbane]

I've never been happy with a Half-Giant concept that had less than a +4 Strength. They're Half-GIANTS. A Half-Orc gets a +2... a Gaint bloodline should be worth more than that. I'd suggest a three level Paragon Half-Giant class. Let the player build up to Large and a +4 Stength...

Str +4, Con +2, Powerful build... LA +1.
Some penalties to Dex and mental stats are likely appropriate.