Adult: GUCK development forum III

[brevdravis]

Question...

Okay, now that i've found the right thread....

As far as the penetrative issue, are we following the d20 paradign, wherein the action is a general description of what is going on?

If we are, I don't quite see the huge penalties for exotic activities being necessary. We are, I hope, assuming that the penetrator is doing other activities rather than just ramming away at the poor person underneath. I think that the check should represent more than just the basic action. If that's the case, a smaller penalty would be more in line, because someone who has taken the time to learn that activity fully would know how to minimize the discomfort of their partner.....

Just my 2c, hope it helps....

Stuart
-Finally finding this durn thread....

 

[brevdravis]

Regarding the gratification issues...

I think that the reason that you're getting the huge discrepancies is that they haven't addressed the issue of male vs female responses to sex.

Men tend to have few, but very powerful orgasms. As a result, I think that the numbers to give a male the more powerful orgasms should be lowered.

However, that does bring up the issue of stacking the recovery penalties and exhaustion penalties. What I propose for that, would be that the male characters should get either a heightened resistance to exhaustion, (Since i notice that they are passing out WAAAY to much... I mean rolling over and going to sleep is one thing...) or that the status penalties should be made gender specific.

BTW: Is this thread dead too? I'd hate to be talking to myself again....

Stuart

 

[Sorn]

brevdavis... welcome to the "active" thread. The current lack of activity is probably due to the board outages over the last few days. By the time everybody gets the notification email, the boards might be down again. Plus, the GUCK team is fairly small, so if two or three of us aren't online, there go half the potential responses.

AFAIK, VVrayven and DbS are tweaking the mechanics right now, so they might be too busy to post.

As I am more on the design end, I'll leave your questions for VVrayven and DbS.... they certainly know the mechanics better than anyone else.

 

[brevdravis]

Advanced mechanics question

Okay, now that I know this board isn't dead, (Thanks for the welcome Sorn!) I'll drop in some more quick questions....

With regards to advanced mechanics....

1. With regards to multiple partners, is there a plan for "doubling-up" on someone. For example, we have the penalties for handling making checks on two people. I'm wondering if the plan is to handle two people making checks on the same person by adding either a synergy bonus, or just to use the same rules that d20 normally uses for two people (or more.... ) combining actions.

The way I'm seeing it, the person in the "middle" should be able to have the multiple checks made upon them with no problem, but if you want to make checks back.... Then I think that the standard rules handle it pretty well with the exception of some of the penetrative skills. Without getting too graphic, I think the "just lie there" rules should apply, unless the character is actively trying to please everybody, and then of course the standard penalties should apply.

Hentai addendum: Regarding multiple partners for those with multiple appendages, I think that the existing "Multi-dexterity" feat could be slightly expanded to cover the situation...

2. NC (non consensual situations). If we're going for a complete guide, we need to cover it (And lets be honest, it is a fantasy novel archetype). Is there a rough draft in the making for this yet? If not, who's covering it?

Thanks, have fun with my queries, and feel free to rip them apart.....

Stuart

 

[Alzrius]

Re: Advanced mechanics question

1. With regards to multiple partners, is there a plan for "doubling-up" on someone. For example, we have the penalties for handling making checks on two people. I'm wondering if the plan is to handle two people making checks on the same person by adding either a synergy bonus, or just to use the same rules that d20 normally uses for two people (or more.... ) combining actions.

We've got this. Near the end of the "Extended Round section: Where a character has been the subject of multiple Prowess checks, take the highest result as the basic roll. Each further roll sufficient to maintain or raise the character’s arousal or horniness adds +2 to this roll; each one rolling below this deducts –2 instead.

That probably should do under "Multiple Partners" though.

2. NC (non consensual situations). If we're going for a complete guide, we need to cover it (And lets be honest, it is a fantasy novel archetype). Is there a rough draft in the making for this yet? If not, who's covering it?

Check out the bottom of the "Status Conditions" section: If a character does not wish sexual activity, they may declare themselves Unwilling as a free action. All arousal and horniness resulting from checks against the character are resisted with an unwilling bonus of between 1 and 20 or more for as long as the condition lasts. Becoming horny negates the benefits of being Unwilling.

The result here is that you can still, for example, use a Penetrative technique on someone and they'd make that free roll back for your pleasure. If you want to make someone get off involuntarily, you just have to beat their unwilling bonus, however high it is. Note that you can make them Aroused and they can still be unwilling. They have to become Horny, as a mental condition, before they lose that bonus.

 

[Death By Surfeit]

Wotcher,

I haven't the time for an in-depth response at the moment (still fiddling with the alignment rules, I'm afraid), but I can address your questions. The comparative trength of a male Climax is represented by the lower DC required to get them into a state of Climax or Ecstasy - women, on the other hand, can sustain more of them and over a longer duration (hence the Extended Climax DC Table).

With our current statistical readings from Java Girl, it appears that men get the best of things when both partners are relatively unskilled, but women quickly take the lead in terms of gratification when partners are more talented. Which is somewhat true, really.

Anyways, expect a post proper over the next few days (assuming the boards don't crash *again*).

DbS

 

[Death By Surfeit]

Oooh,

This looks like a case for Java Girl: VVrayven, could you investigate what happens if we give both males and females identical fatigue values, ie men get (Con) Climaxes before Exhaustion? Their lower DCs may be offset by the advantage women get in the Extended Climax Table, and we could be able to reach an equilibrium of sorts.

Cheers!

 

[brevdravis]

Thanks for the answers

Thanks a lot for pointing out those sections of the guide that I missed.

(Not that I'm trying to nitpick here.... buuuut...a few ideas....)

1. With regards to the multiple partners rule, I think that the bonus might be a little low, after all, the fact that it's two people giving full attention instead of one splitting their attention should be reflected. I'm thinking a bonus based on the degree the check was made by...

I.e. If you have a check that just maintains, the +2 should apply, but if the second check would actually raise the arousal level, I'm thinking at least a +5, possibly more depending on the check roll.

2. Thanks for pointing out the NC rule. However, I think that needs a little fleshing out, since it's pretty barren. Just a quick thought, (Could offend, so I apologize in advance) but IMHO there are five ways that the situation could be handled. (Sidebars, maybe...)

A. Doesn't exist in the world. (All relationships are consensual and shame on you for even thinking otherwise!) - Something like this would be for those who want to include sex but don't want to include the more unpleasant parts of human nature.

B. Reality - Soft focus. (It's an unpleasant fact of life and is handled off screen with a quick combat followed by a soft-focus roll for the attacker.) - For those who want it in the game but don't want the total experience.

C. Reality - Hard Focus. (It's an unpleasant reality that happens in the world. Is done "on screen" with various grapple checks, followed by proficiency checks. Severe penalties would be present for the attacker to even attempt to pleasure the victim. 95+% of the time the only one who enjoys the situation is the attacker.) - For those who want gritty reality.

D. Fantasy - Soft focus. (Ranges from unpleasant to fantasy situations. A quick grapple roll followed by the quick proficiency check.) - For those who want to have those lovely little "bodice-ripper" scenes in their game, but want to avoid the nitty-gritty.

E. Fantasy - Hard Focus. (Same as the soft focus, except the fantasy scene is more played out with specific checks for a few things. Penalties are much lighter, and the emphasis is on attempts to bring pleasure rather than the frightening reality.) - For those of , Oh the hell with it, I'll admit it, it's for me. There, ya happy?

This is just a quick outline, the soft focus would be a quick roll similar to what we have, and I think the only one that would need rules would be the hard focus.

Just rambling off-topic.

Thanks for your time.

Stuart

 

[VVrayven]

Welcome, brevdravis. I like your enthusiasim, you remind me of me a little. I'll respond to your points:

On the Multiple Partners... I don't think you realize how much of an advantage get TWO rolls applied to you is. First of all, there shouldn't be a big bonus to multiple partners. If five people were concentrating on one person, there isn't a whole lot more to do... And if you add huge bonuses to the roll, you end up with really high results that result in instant multiple orgasms and such (which IMHO is just silly). If I was getting a good attention from my s/o the fact that a few other tongues were bathing me wouldn't make much difference. As such, our system does help statistically a great deal. Take basic partners, all with +3 total prowess and normal conditions, all are aroused.

If just ONE person pleasures a girl, she only has a 30% chance to get peaked.
If TWO people get on her, she has a 55.5% chance to be peaked.

A 25.5% increase is a hell of a lot. (A plus +5 bonus would give well over a 35% increase, which I consider far too much). In addition, if the bonus was that high. Any four people could get together and be practically GUARENTEED to be successful, and I don't like that.

On the NC STUFF... I have brought this up before. The rule is vauge on purpose and we are deliberately avoiding a side-bar in the rules section. There will be several pages (or paragraphs) devoted to the topic of NC. It will not be covered to a detailed extent. The Unwilling condition is broad enough that it will cover any of the styles you have listed and we may use such a list in the later section disuccing NC. However, this is not part of the core mechanics and thus we will dicuss it later (don't expect a big complex rule add-on to the core mechanics for NC). However. All that being said. I plan to lead the Hentai expansion which will have some detailed rules for NC and such if you are interested. Again, this is all for a later date and not for current discussion. Good list though, try and post it again when we get around to the NC section.

AND!!!! JAVA GIRL RETURNS!

Alrighty guys. Java girl is back on the scene and I'm working hard. I do need some feedback quickly though so that I might continue (particularly from DbS). My new program running ability has been greatly increased but I have found a couple of mechanics flaws that need to be addressed.

1. Male Gratification scores. We can fix these after the program is running, I have three ideas. Please hold comment until you have seen my results.

2. The Delerious Status Condition. If this is induced in a female with less than a 6 prowess modifier, it will cause her to try to masturbate infinately if no partner is around. She will never reach orgasm because she is exhausted. There is no duration so she will simply continue probably till she passes out because of exposure. I see this as a problem. Does anyone else. Personally I'd like to see Delerious condition carry a bonus to pleasure the person and perhaps give them a bit greater endurance? Any thoughts? In addition, they should be immune to WIS damage from sex, else they will quickly be put in a coma. AND, should partners always reside to aroused whilst SDed?

3. Our thinking on the HD damage per orgasm per level whilst exhausted is wrong (I know I came up with it <sheepish look>) A level one character can on average have 10 whilst exhausted. Level 3 people can have 7. And from there on the average is 6. Thus, as you gain in level you can take LESS orgasms whilst exhuasted. Also, I'm begining to think that orgasm shouldn't be the only way to measure fatigue. If two people (god forbid) made love for two hours without an orgasm, I think BOTH should be fatigued. Comments?

I'm almost ready to engage the next version of my program and it looks to be cool, but I need these modifications before I proceed. Thanks for the help, boys.

 

[Alzrius]

2. The Delerious Status Condition. If this is induced in a female with less than a 6 prowess modifier, it will cause her to try to masturbate infinately if no partner is around. She will never reach orgasm because she is exhausted. There is no duration so she will simply continue probably till she passes out because of exposure. I see this as a problem. Does anyone else.

I'm not sure...the description for being Delerious says, "A Delirious character is beyond the reach of the world and lost in a private world of sensuality, devoid of the will to do anything but satisfy an all-consuming desire for base pleasure. This is not by any means a natural state - only through the machinations of powerful enchantments or by having their Wisdom reduced to 3 or lower whilst aroused can a character enter this state.

Unless the character succeeds in a Will save (DC 30) each round, they are considered Helpless, incapable of taking any action beyond seeking out the nearest source of sexual relief and indulging themselves They lack the awareness to make seduction attempts, instead throwing themselves at whatever looks most satisfying - sexual alignment plays a role where there is a choice of partners, but beyond that a Delirious character will consent to pretty much anything and anyone."

Given that, she would probably snap out of it when she recovers her Wis (which won't go down since she can't reach orgasm) or when the spell ends. Ergo, she won't die of exposure.

That said, the problem of a woman who is Delerious not being able to reach orgasm from masterbating doesn't seem so terribly wrong here; It'd seem to make sense that she'd try desperately to find someone, anyone, to get her off, and if alone would suffer for it.

Personally I'd like to see Delerious condition carry a bonus to pleasure the person and perhaps give them a bit greater endurance? Any thoughts? In addition, they should be immune to WIS damage from sex, else they will quickly be put in a coma. AND, should partners always reside to aroused whilst SDed?

The system we're developing seems to be changing and revising a bit too much, so for that reason I think that Delerious is fine as it is. Giving a bonus doesn't seem quite right, since you'd think that someone whose become a sex-crazed maniac wouldn't suddenly become even more proficient in touching someone just the right way. In essence, being that aroused sends your technique to hell, it doesn't make it better.

As to being immune to Wis damage...they'd only lose consciousness if they were in this state due to their Wis being below three. At that point, they'd have their Wis go to zero and be unconscious for a day later, when they'd gain back 1 point and wake up. This seems about normal for someone who already had enough orgasms to drive their Wisdom that low to begin with.

Not sure what you mean by SDed.

3. Our thinking on the HD damage per orgasm per level whilst exhausted is wrong (I know I came up with it <sheepish look>) A level one character can on average have 10 whilst exhausted. Level 3 people can have 7. And from there on the average is 6. Thus, as you gain in level you can take LESS orgasms whilst exhuasted. Also, I'm begining to think that orgasm shouldn't be the only way to measure fatigue. If two people (god forbid) made love for two hours without an orgasm, I think BOTH should be fatigued. Comments?

Perhaps a caveat that characters who engage in sex for a number of rounds equal to their Con score become Fatigued, or something along those lines?