Advertorials with no game content in Dragon

[takasi]

the question was raised here that was raised over at www.paizo.com - if you dislike the business practices of the company so much, and if you find the quality not to your liking, why do you subscribe?

I'm a collector. Even the worst quality comic book can have value.

I'm not simply a subscriber. I also pick up the magazines at the local bookstore and my FLGS to keep my bagged copy in better condition. For really good issues I'll collect multiple copies and give them out to players at my table as gifts.

Constructive criticism is always welcome. Destructive criticism has no real value.

Is constructive criticism simply telling someone what you like about them and leaving out what you dislike? That's fanboyism, not criticism.

 

[BOZ]

I'm well aware I'm feeding the troll here, but why do you bother reading our magazines and supporting our products when you so obviously disdain everything we do?

i get the impression that he wants you to do exactly what he wants, when he wants, and how he wants, and finds your lack of compliance extremely frustrating.

he wants to like your products very much, but your sense of free will is very off-putting.

 

[GwydapLlew]

Is constructive criticism simply telling someone what you like about them and leaving out what you dislike? That's fanboyism, not criticism.

I see you are using my jokingly-administered title of Paizo Fanboy against me.

If a company that I do business with (in this case, subscribe to their periodicals) does something that I disagree with, then I make my opinion known in some way. If an article leaves out a bit of information, I'll ask for clarification. If something in an adventure is unclear, I'll log onto the Paizo forums and ask questions. Everytime I have done so, I have gotten satisfactory answers or responses.

If a company that I do business with (in this case, subscribe to their periodicals) does something that I agree with, then I make my opinion known in some way. For example, if I prefer that they release web content in .pdf format and they do so, I thank them for their effort. While I may wish that the information was updated in a more timely manner, I am also aware of time constraints that the company faces. Given a choice, I will always choose a quality primary product and a delayed secondary product than any other option.

If I agree with the quality of the magazines, the timeliness of delivery, the detail of customer service provided, and the underlying business decisions made to keep that company profitable, that makes me a satisfied consumer. Volunteering to help run their booth at conventions - now that makes me a fanboy.

 

[Pielorinho]

Moderator's Notes

Okay, everyone, deep breaths. There are two ways to disagree on an issue:
1) Politely, respectfully, and recognizing that your "opponent" has thought about their viewpoint and holds it sincerely.

2) Making snide jokes about the other person, implying that they have character defects, and generally showing a lack of respect for the other person.

Guess which style of disagreement is not going to be allowed any more in this thread?

If someone is bothering you, please use the "ignore" function. If you disagree with someone's professional decisions, please speak to them with respect, civility, and an understanding of their right to their viewpoint--or else don't speak to them at all.

And if I have to stop the car again, we're not going to Disneyworld--we're going to the dentist.

Daniel

Edit: note that I am keeping this purposefully vague for now, because calling out particular posters is not helpful. This is not a response to the most recent post--it's only just now that I've become aware of this thread.

 

[JoshuaFrost]

Moderator's Notes

And if I have to stop the car again, we're not going to Disneyworld--we're going to the dentist.

I went to the dentist yesterday. I have a tooth issue that my dentist says he's going to have to "be very creative about". That's not something a dentist should ever say to you. I'd much rather go to Disneyworld.

I have one additional thing to say about where this thread has gone and then I wash my hands of it. Paizo listens to its customers. The magazines are in their "new golden age" because Erik and James and Jason and Mike and Other James and Jeremy and Wes have listened to every constructive criticism our customers and fans have had in the last three years. They've taken every one of them to heart and changed the magazines for what I personally believe is the better. (And our market research shows you feel the same way.) The magazines are good because the staff is good because the fans are good. Not to get too cheasy, but we're all in this together.

I'll continue to let our customer service speak for itself and have nothing more to add to this discussion.

 

[Bardsandsages]

Why not just lower ad rates?

You know, if it is getting difficult to generate ad revenues, why not just lower the rates or offer special rates for smaller publishers? I'm sure there are plenty of publishers who would love to advertise in dragon, but can't justify the costs. Perhaps examining how best to promote your advertising opportunities to your core market (pen-n-paper RPGS) instead of deliberately changing the magazine to cater to a group you hope will advertise would be a better course. I think this thread has shown that while many say they don't care one way or the other about a move toward more non-D&D content, there is a vocal group that resents it.

Note: I have looked at the rate card, and I realize it does in fact state that you offer special "hobby rates" for small publishers. But maybe doing a bit more to get the word out that you have such a program, or maybe sharing what those rates are. (20%? 25%?, 50%?--how much of a discount is really offered).

 

[takasi]

I apologize for my grumpiness.

It just bothers me when a valid complaint is followed by "if you hate us so much why do you care?" Oh well, let the lovefest continue.

 

[Storm Raven]

I apologize for my grumpiness.

It just bothers me when a valid complaint is followed by "if you hate us so much why do you care?" Oh well, let the lovefest continue.

Given that they responded to about two pages of valid criticism before your rant popped up, I'm not sure how you get that this thread was a "lovefest" without your presence. You see, other people have managed to couch their criticisms in ways that are not insulting threadcraps. They have had their complaints responded to. Take note of this.

 

[Psion]

The simple fact is, according to our market data, people hate Silicon Sorcery. But they love video games. And they love D&D. But apparently they don't love both together?

/me weeps
/me shakes fist at "marketing data" focus groups, respondants, etc.

Why you gotta be a hatah? Why?

Seriously, I wonder about the techniques being employed here. You say that Silicon Sorcery, in Bizarro-marketing-world, is the least popular of your articles. But was the preview put to the test under the same scrutiny? I can't but help see a gaming magazine article with gaming content being more popular than a similarly themed article without it.

Heck, the gaming material add-on might be half a page. I have great difficulty understanding how adding half a page of useful material to tie an article that, while it helps pay the bills, is going to be generally poorly received, can't help but make it better.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Give us some credit, folks. If it were an advertorial we'd state that it was.

Hmm...faceless people on the internet whose job is to get my money are asking me to trust them again. No. I pay money for content, I put up with ads when they're not intrusive, and I don't like ads dressed up as content.

the video game industry is the BILLION-dollar gorilla in the room. If they want to up their spending on my favorite magazine so that it can get additional quality content AND they're upping it because we're doing a tiny bit more video game coverage, I can't see how that's a bad thing.

...so long as it doesn't displace any of the actual D&D content.

If adding a couple pages of video game stuff means that Dragon can increase its pagecount and add more D&D articles, that's excellent. I'm sure there's great stuff that has been cut for space that I would have loved to read. But if the video game content is taking up two pages in the magazine...a magazine which the editors tell us is often cramped for space and must edit down content...without any compensation, that's not good. If I wanted video game stuff, I'd read a video game magazine the internet.

In one of the best issues of Dragon I've seen in years (The Horde FR Article, Ecology of the Ogre Mage, Bows & Crossbows, Savage Tidings, Damon Demonomicon) it worries me that because one of my comments has been repeatedly taken out of context that some people are threatening to leave the magazine. Two pages of video game content versus DOZENS pages of the above content? Where's the thread that talks about how awesome this issue was?

The internet has a built-in filter that changes mild discontent to screaming histrionics. You get used to it.