Advice for Gamers in Society

[Starbuck_II]

A gamer...

1. ...should not talk about his or her character unless specifically asked. A non-gamer just doesn't understand why a certain character is so awesome. Mentioning a favorite character on a first date will quickly make it a last date.

If a girl mentioned her character on a date with me: definately date her again.
It shows interest in something I love after all.
I just thought that would be awesome when I first read this.

Then again I haven't dated in a while so any date would be okay with me

4. ...needs to maintain personal hygiene! This is the worst of the stereotypes. Unfortunately there is truth to it.

Wait, there are unhygienic gamers? Glad I've never met any. Eww.

5. ...should not gawk at members of the opposite sex. In my personal experience, I've witnessed entire rooms of male gamers hush and swivel their heads at the sound of a female voice...and continue staring. Which is often uncomfortable for the person being stared at.

Although, if the guy is doing on purpose for a joke it should be okay

7. ...does not try to defend their hobby against somebody who thinks its Satanic. Fortunately, much of the Satanic Panic is long gone, but I still encounter people who condemn me for my hobby. It's best to ignore them and walk away. If they persist, just tell them that their behavior is unacceptable and avoid them if possible. Confrontation should be a last option, if an option at all.

No, I disagree. If you don't stand for something; you will be walked all over.

Choosing your battles is good though I'll agree.

 

[Dragonbait]

5. ...should not gawk at members of the opposite sex. In my personal experience, I've witnessed entire rooms of male gamers hush and swivel their heads at the sound of a female voice...and continue staring. Which is often uncomfortable for the person being stared at.

Oh lawdy, since I regularly game with females I've seen this too many times to count.

I saw an article about this and think that a could more should be added (with a wiser choice of words)

...should not expect newcomers to gaming to understand all the intracicies of the game and the myriad of fantasy worlds, let alone what dice to roll and when.

...should not become incensed when a person fails to understand all the intracicies of gaming, its subculture, and its trappings.

...should not tolerate such poor behavior in others and inform friends (in a nice way) if they fail to follow these rules.

 

[munkeywrench]

I swear, I'm going to write a self-help book someday on this very topic. Here's a good story, but there's quite a bit of setup so bear with me.


So, there I was in my FLGS reading some old Sonic the Hedgehog comics i had just bought (Mom used to buy them for me for those long car trips to Grandma's house). My girlfriend (she's a hottie, this is important later) is with me reading the copy of V for Vendetta she just bought (she loved the movie and loves the original even more). I look up for a moment to see a kid, about middle-school age, be completely, mercilessly destroyed in a game of yugioh cards by none other than an obese, unshaven, shirt-stained, smelly man in his mid 20's wearing a naruto headband. He cackled and gloated over his victory while saying the kid's deck sucked. Normally I keep to myself, but I just couldn't stand for that kind of thing. Even though It's been years and years since I played yugioh with my little brother, I asked the young kid if he would let me use his deck to play against naruto-man. He agreed and I was able to win with the kid's deck through a mix of bluffing, intimidating body language, and confidence to give me a mental advantage. I made the kid smile and I smiled too.


Now to the relevant part. As my sweetheart and I were leaving, naruto-man asked to talk to me. He asked, "How could someone who knows how to play yugioh cards, reads Sonic the Hegdehog, plays D&D, and hangs out in a comic shop be so confident and have such a cute girlfriend clinging to his arm?" My response, in list form, was as follows:

1) I DON'T need to make kids half my age feel like crap in order to feel good about myself. I don't need to drag ANYONE down to feel good about myself.

2) My Hobbies are just that; HOBBIES. They something I do to kill time. I don't take them seriously. I certainly don't let them define the majority of my persona (I point to his naruto headband).

3) I have good hygene. This isn't that hard. I spend the sum total of one hour every day: washing my clothes, showering, shaving, brushing my teeth, and putting on deoderant. Clean clothes, clean body, clean face, clean teeth, clean smell. One for each finger. Not Difficult.
---Additional: Overweight? Cutting out soda-pop helps TONS. I used to drink soda a lot, but had to stop because I am a very thirsty person. Water is the only thing I drink now because it's the only thing that quenches my thirst. I also try to walk everywhere I can (you start to notice cool things while walking that you would normally miss). Learn to cook. It's better for your body and saves lots of money. Finally, for those who always feel hungry, low-calorie-low-fat crackers and lots of water put a stop to my nagging food cravings.

4) I know which of my hobbies is mainstream and which aren't. That way, I know which ones are appropriate to talk about depending on the situation. I don't talk with my co-workers about the concepts presented in Watchmen, but I do talk with them about the latest episode of Lost or South Park.

5) Don't have any mainstream hobbies or interests? Get some! It's not really healthy. Learning at least one thing about everything does the mind good and helps keep you well-rounded.

6) Speak calmly, eloquently, and with proper articulation. Naruto-man spoke in a whiny voice with a heavy lisp. I told him he needed to chill-out when he talks so he doesn't come off as shrill and annoying. Besides, it would make him sound smarter and more confident in himself.

7) Get others to talk about themselves rather than talking about yourself. I takes the pressure of you, you learn more about other people, and you are more likely to be seen as a nice and likable person.

8) Naruto-man is anti-social, spineless, and stuck in a vicious cycle of self-loathing. He wants to be a social person who can talk to girls and other people with confidence, but doesn't know how. It's easy, actually. FAKE IT! Pretend to be confident. Force yourself to socialize even though it's uncomfortable. If you make a conversational gaff, apologize, tell yourself your still cool and awesome, and forget about it. Do this so much that it becomes habitual. In time, and through lots of trial and error, you'll be able to carry on conversations with anyone without much difficulty. It will also feel strange and unnatural to think poorly of yourself and to say bad things about yourself.

9) Females make up a little more than half of humanity. They are not strange and ethereal creatures from the outer planes. I know that their physical differences seem strange, alien, and highly alluring, but they are people just like anyone else.

10) Always seek to improve yourself. Don't obsess about it, but don't let yourself stagnate.


aaaaaand I'm done. My heart goes out to those who fit the stereotype because it's really not that hard of a stereotype to break. For me, the hardest thing to do was grasp the reality that it IS possible to better one's own self no matter how bad things may seem.

 

[MonkeyDragon]

The thing that gets to me about social discussions like these is that for some reason gaming gets set apart from other hobbies as if there is something fundamentally different about us as people because of what we spend our time doing.

Can we take just a tiny step back and look at the OP's most excellent post as Advice for PEOPLE in society, rather than gamers?

A person...

1. ...should not babble endlessly on about their hobbies to people who are not into said hobbies or interested in hearing about them. Being obsessive is a sure way to shoot a relationship or friendship in the foot.

2. ...should not solely talk about their favorite hobby. A person should know that a conversation is a fluid, dynamic thing that requires the participation of all parties. Trying to dominate a conversation is rude.

3. ...should talk about ALL aspects of themselves. Their different hobbies and passtimes, experiences, opinions, etc. A person is the sum of thier experiences. It benefits anyone to be well-rounded. No one likes being with someone completely one-dimensional.

4. ...needs to maintain personal hygiene! This is the worst of the stereotypes. Unfortunately there is truth to it. (There's just no refuting this one. It applies to everyone, though, and not just gamers. For the sake of humanity, people, BATHE.)

5. ...should not gawk at members of the opposite sex. Or members of the same sex. Can't we all just be courteous to each other? Don't be a creepy jerk. Don't be rude.

6. ...should realize that if you're going to go out in public and present yourself in a way that's intended to provoke a reaction....you're GOING TO GET A REACTION. Either present yourself in a way that invites a good reaction, or be prepared to deal with the consequences.

7. (This is the one I have a problem with, for reasons others have mentioned above. But I can definitely see the intended wisdom.) A person knows when it is appropriate to debate issues that are important to them, and when to walk away. It's not wrong to stand up for yourself, especially if someone is impunging your character based on misinformation. It's not wrong to try to educate. But there is a time and place for the soap box. Confrontation is not always productive. Quite frankly, most people who are willing to have a confrontation with you have already made up their minds and are not going to be convinced of anything, no matter what you have to say. All you have to gain from a fight with them is feelings of agitation and an elevated heart rate.


So that's my take on the whole thing.

Well, those are the seven that I can think of at the moment. Feel free to post your own and discuss.

 

[Oni]

The thing that gets to me about social discussions like these is that for some reason gaming gets set apart from other hobbies as if there is something fundamentally different about us as people because of what we spend our time doing.

Well it is a lot more noticable in gaming than say train hobbiest or sky divers. To be fair I've seen a lot of similar problems amoung fans of comics, anime or scifi for example. Perhaps it would be more correct to say that there is some correlation between escapist hobbies and social retardation. I think it would also be reasonable to say that people already possessing these problems are drawn to these hobbies because they seperate them from their problems a degree and in a self-sustaining circle because those hobbies seem more accepting to people like that because they're already full of people like that. This of course builds reputation and can drive other more well adjusted people away essentially making the stereotype truer and truer. I guess what I'm trying to say is perhaps there is something fundementally different about gamers as people (generalizing of course, everyone's their own special snowflake). Though I don't think this oddness stems from the hobby so much as the hobby stems from the oddness.

 

[munkeywrench]

I think it would also be reasonable to say that people already possessing these problems are drawn to these hobbies because they seperate them from their problems a degree and in a self-sustaining circle because those hobbies seem more accepting to people like that because they're already full of people like that. This of course builds reputation and can drive other more well adjusted people away essentially making the stereotype truer and truer.

This. Exactly this. PnP games, star trek/wars, comic books, anime, etc, just happen to have qualities that appeal to social outcasts. I will elaborate on this point more using a generic "hobby" as a metaphor.

Stage 1) In the beginning, there is a decent number of well adjusted people in the hobby as well as a decent number of social rejects. The percentages my tilt more in one direction than the other, but no side is in clear domination of the other. Things are stable and the hobby is socially acceptable.

Stage 2) Due to the hobby having a decent population of social outcasts, other social outcasts are attracted to the hobby at an accelerated rate under the added incentive of the hobby already being accepting of people like themselves. The hobby is still socially acceptable, but stability is being strained.

Stage 3) If the number of new well-adjusted fans fails to keep up with the number of social outcast fans, the social outcast fans start to gain a fairly large majority. At this point, well-adjusted fans may leave the hobby out of a feeling of not fitting in. It is also harder to get well adjusted fans to join the hobby. The hobby is starting to be considered a little strange. Stability is breaking down.

Stage 4) The hobby is now dominated by social rejects. well-adjusted people steer clear from the hobby to avoid being thrown into the same category as the social outcasts. The only new fans the hobby can recruit are social outcasts. Stability has crumbled to dust. The hobby is now no longer socially acceptable.

Stage 5) Sometimes a miracle happens and a few popular people will join and remain part of the hobby. These popular people attract well-adjusted people as well as other popular people. Slowly (or quickly in some rare instances), the population of well-adjusted fans approaches the population
of social rejects. This pushes the hobby back into Stage 1.

corollaries (not exhaustive):
1 - Not all hobbies begin in stage 1. Some may begin in stage 2, 3 or 4.
2 - certain events, such as a media witch hunt, can immediately blast a hobby from stage 1 or 2 to stage 3 or 4.


examples:
70's video game industry: stage 1
anime in the 80's: stage 2
D&D during the media witch hunt: stage 3
current day D&D: stage 4
current day videogame industry: stage 5


If we want PnP RPG's to get out of stage 4, we need to act in such a way that other people won't be ashamed to hang out with us. We need to re-establish the balance and stop letting our hobby be dominated by social outcasts. Stability can be re-established by turning social outcasts into well-adjusted people which will allow for the recruitment of more well-adjusted people. Stage 5 will then be on its way.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Buh? The vast majority of gamers I know are well-adjusted members of society. (Or at least as well-adjusted as anybody actually is, which isn't particularly.) There are definitely exceptions, but they're exceptions.

At GenCon, at any given table of strangers, five or six out of six people will be more or less normal, pass-on-the-street-without-a-glance folks. More intelligent than average, yes, which in itself leads to slightly more nonconformity, but more or less normal. I've attended GenCon yearly since 1984, and while the mainstreaming has slightly increased, it was never the hideous mob of freaks this thread is making it out to be.

Well, except for the cosplay people and the LARPers, of course!

(Edited to present a contrast: My other major hobby is poker, and the number of "characters" at a given poker table is much higher, percentage-wise, than at a given game table. There's no prevailing type, but poker players are loud and obnoxious, bullying, extremely withdrawn, ridiculously superstitious, and, to be kind, "dull average," among many other non-well-adjusted personality traits. Aside from the ridiculous profits to be had, I'd much, much, much prefer to be at a table of strangers gaming than at a table of strangers playing poker.)

 

[the Jester]

examples:
70's video game industry: stage 1
anime in the 80's: stage 2
D&D during the media witch hunt: stage 3
current day D&D: stage 4
current day videogame industry: stage 5

Wow, you think that gaming has more social outcasts now than during the 80s? Wow. Were you around back then? Because I would argue the exact opposite, frankly. A lot of it has to do with the aging gamer population- even many of the extremely maladjusted have grown up to be beautiful swans, if you don't mind me mixing my metaphors a little bit there.

 

[the Jester]

A gamer...

7. ...does not try to defend their hobby against somebody who thinks its Satanic. Fortunately, much of the Satanic Panic is long gone, but I still encounter people who condemn me for my hobby. It's best to ignore them and walk away. If they persist, just tell them that their behavior is unacceptable and avoid them if possible. Confrontation should be a last option, if an option at all.

I couldn't disagree more. Much like you shouldn't just walk away if someone condemns you for your religion, skin color, sexual preference or whatever, there's no reason to simply let someone abuse you.

 

[Set]

Remember children, you should hide your true identity and feelings from other people, if you don't want to be ostracized and rejected. Burrow deeply into that closet and only talk to people about what they seem interested in. If you happen to like something that they aren't talking about, it's because you're a dirty deviant who should feel shame, SHAME, for being different.

Ignore the frat-boys with their leering, catcalls and ***-grabbing. You aren't part of the popular crew, so if you take notice of a member of the opposite sex, it's because you are a creepy un-socialized stalker who probably has never seen a girl before because you live in your parent's basement.

Ignore the jocks with their homoerotic 'wrasslin' and ***-slapping of each other. You aren't one of them, so if you make any comment about another man's body, or look for more than the approved three seconds at another man, you will be labeled as gay, shunned and possibly beaten.

It's probably safer to just keep your eyes down, your arms at your sides (don't wave them around enthusiastically when you talk about something that interests you, like those popular kids do, because that's only for them to do, and if you do it, you will be labeled as overly emotional or possibly even crazed) and walk quickly and quietly to your destination, as other people will never accept you for who you are, and if you aren't good at lying and pretending to like exactly what everyone else likes, you'll never fit in.

Also, try not to eat anyone. Some people have funny beliefs about that sort of thing.

Ignore these warnings at your peril. If you are unable to run with the herd, you will be eaten by lions.