Pathfinder 1E Advice Needed: Best way to work with Power Gamers?

[drood]

I throw higher level creatures at 'em...or just pile on the same level creatures.

Power Gamers tend to think they are all that...they ain't!!!

In my campaigns...my players can be confronted by higher level creatures/NPC's at ANY time. This forces them to come up with intelligent role playing solutions. Or they can just run away...which is another option!

 

[ForeverSlayer]

To answer the OP:

The good old purple lightning bolt from the sky takes care of power gamers every time.

 

[saskganesh]

I'll just echo others' suggestions to let them have their fun and be awesome, but to also mix it up, so their strengths aren't always the default tactic. Different kinds of encounters, different kinds of foes, different exigencies. Keep them thinking, keep it fresh.

 

[Celebrim]

I've got a question for all the other DMs out there. For the last few weeks, I've been DMing for a group who I can only describe as Power Gamers. They love to optimize their characters, and build them much more around mechanics rather than role playing potential.

There are only two things you can do about power gamers.

1) Be the best RBDM you can be.
2) Make sure you preemptively attack the rules ahead of the players taking abilities to try to prevent insanity from happening. If you have players building Pun-Pun or similar 'win button' characters, you need to squash that because there isn't anything left of the game once the 1st law of RPGs is broken that badly. Fix holes in the rules system before they are exploited if at all possible.

What's more, when I make different, more challenging encounters, there's two distinct aspects to them. In these encounters, some characters do relatively well, while others have an extremely difficult time. For the characters who have a difficult time, sometimes they can't even hit the enemies because their defenses are so high in order to make them challenging for the others.

More enemies is almost always more exciting and more challenging than a single big enemy, and it gives your players chances to use their strengths were they can be best used. In general, with power gamers, no combat should involve fewer monsters than you have PCs. Many combats should have the PC's outnumbered 2:1. The idea is to organize monsters into tactical units and use teamwork on the players.

To keep things simple to prepare, try to make the monsters as close to stock MM as you can manage - although occassionally abusing the CR system with synergistic template or class level can be fun. Avoid humanoid NPCs, both because they are hard to make challenging and to avoid monte hauling power gamers with loads of useful loot. Other than that go full RBDM on them.

 

[Warskull]

First off you need to understand that powergaming isn't the problem. It is the parity between the good powergamers and the bad powergamers. If all the characters were built equally effectively you could just ramp up difficulty. Maybe ask the people with a better grasp on mechanics to help the weaker players out a bit.

You need to learn how to power game yourself. Don't just ramp up the numbers on monsters. Use then in more creative and effective ways. That way they are a threat, but everyone can still hit them.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

Two quick ideas:

(1) Instead of increasing defenses to the point that half the PCs can't possibly hit them, use a greater number of enemy creatures with more reasonable defenses. Don't be afraid to pile on more and more foes, and whittle down your PCs' resources.

(2) Make the environment more challenging. Put the PCs into situations where their favorite tactics don't work as well, or they simply can't do certain things. Give their enemies the "home field advantage."

That's exactly what I was thinking. Both those ideas should help quite a bit.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

It even got so bad that the player would research the module we were playing and complain if I changed things around as that's not how it should be in the module. Needless to say we eventually had a parting of the ways.

That's one of many reasons that I write all of my own adventures.

If I were using a module, though, I would feel free to change it as I saw fit. A player who challenged that wouldn't last long with me.

 

[mr_outsidevoice]

Puzzles and traps are a good way.

A role play challenge from time to time. In a game I played in, we needed to negotiate with an emissary of the Fairie Court. In the world, the Fey rhymed when speaking and only responded to those who spoke in rhyme. It is a bit of prep, but once you get your mind working in that direction, it is fun.

In combat, create battlefield conditions that add penalties and hidden bonuses.

 

[Greenfield]

Trying to top their power inherently means handing them more Exp, for the higher challenge ratings.

That in turn means that they advance in levels and power faster, and pick up bigger treasure items.

Stick to lower level creatures that present a challenge as a group, but that, by the numbers, are small change in the Exp department. Spice these with a few Big Bads.

Also, instead of trying to give your monsters high ACs, which the non-power gamers will have a problem with, look at Displacement and Concealment effects that give a miss percentage. AC10, with a 50% miss chance is the same for everyone.

And you don't need magic to do that. Smoke works. So does thick underbrush.

In my group we have one and a half power gamers. I know that sounds strange, but one player continues in the near-mindless pursuit of "more power".

We do treasure splits by equal shares based on resale value, then you "buy" what you want from the pile. Anything not bought by a party member gets sold on the open market, and the proceeds then go to the players based on any unspent share they might have.

Our power gamer owes people, big time, for past treasure picks, when what he wanted was more than his share.

Our latest pile includes a Ring of Freedom of Movement that he is drooling over. Also several +6 stat items. And, naturally, he wants them all.

He's pretty much said that he's going to have to go deeper into debt to get what he wants, but he's willing to do that.

My character is the one who's been loaning him money, since there aren't that many items that a Bard can really use. He's just assuming that I have the money, and that I'm willing to front him more loans. Note that he hasn't made any effort to repay the ones he has, even when he had cash.

And he'll be mad at me for cutting off his credit, just you wait and see.

Our "half a power gamer" came into the game having played at tables where the power game was required due to predatory DMs and PVP from others at the table. He's coming to realize, slowly, that this doesn't fit our style, that nobody's going to stab him in the back and the DM isn't going to set up an ambush aimed just at him.

He's coming around.

I have no hope of "curing" our power gamer. He honestly sees the acquisition of power as the goal of the game, and he intends to "win" When he gets slapped down, as we demonstrate obvious flaws in his "perfect" build, or show him where he misread the rules (probably on purpose), he just becomes more determined. In his mind the slap down wasn't a response to his power gaming, it was proff that he wasn't power gaming enough. After all, if he'd done a "better" job of it, that slap-down wouldn't have worked, would it?

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Another way to handle it is talk to the group.

Find out what the powergamers want. Do they want optimized combat monsters, guys to rival Hercules and women to rival Xena, with mages that could go toe to toe with Sauramon? There's nothing wrong with wanting that. Hell, from an RP standpoint, warriors and mages would seek to be the best they can be so they didn't get brutally murdered by monsters.

Then find out what the non-powergamers want. Do they want to be investigators, social mavens, political powerhouses who use skills and/or magic to get their way?

If some people want characters who are more the political types and robbers, then take a page from the old Shadowrun stuff.

Let the non-combat players do stuff during combat like point out certain enemies, call out the types of spells being used, use their skills for information, while the combatacons make mincemeat out of the monsters.

Find out what the players want, and why they want to play that way. Hell, you're all functioning adults, just reason it out.

Oh, and in regards to the guy who would buy the module and read it and call the GM out? He'd be looking for a new group. Fast.