D&D 3E/3.5 Advice on Magic Item Compendium for 3.5

[wlmartin]

I have begun looking at the wonderful book, Magic Item Compendium
The choices and streamlined tables are fantastic although I had a few questions

1 : In traditional tables, I usually run the "spells on a scroll" table to see how many spells a scroll has. I typically then give a seperate scroll for each spell just for cosmetic purposes. With the Magic Item Compendium, the result is a single scroll. Is this taking into account the single value of that scroll or does it want me to roll for number-of-spells-on-scroll as the DMG does?

2 : I ran some samples of Treasure for a range of monsters and encounters. In these examples I was coming out with a treasure value (determined by cashing in the gold, gems and items). This treasure value was typically 25% higher than it should be. This 25% comparison was made by looking at the wealth by level table. So my question is --- has anyone else noticed this problem? has anyone else come up with a solution?

I don't have a problem with over-rewarding players but if I can avoid the 25% hike without taking a crowbar to the figures, that would be great.


My goal is to get the characters earning just as much as they should in items, stop under-rewarding (i am fine if they get more but when the tables roll badly, thats just boring!) however i like the streamlined tables in the compendium as well as the larger selection of items.

 

[delericho]

1 : In traditional tables, I usually run the "spells on a scroll" table to see how many spells a scroll has. I typically then give a seperate scroll for each spell just for cosmetic purposes.

Yep, I do the same.

With the Magic Item Compendium, the result is a single scroll. Is this taking into account the single value of that scroll or does it want me to roll for number-of-spells-on-scroll as the DMG does?

No idea, but my guess would be that you're supposed to roll as per the DMG. Unless the MIC says otherwise, of course.

2 : I ran some samples of Treasure for a range of monsters and encounters. In these examples I was coming out with a treasure value (determined by cashing in the gold, gems and items). This treasure value was typically 25% higher than it should be. This 25% comparison was made by looking at the wealth by level table. So my question is --- has anyone else noticed this problem? has anyone else come up with a solution?

There's another table in the DMG that gives expected treasure per encounter. I forget exactly where it is, but it's close to WbL. How do your results compare with that?

I think part of the discrepancy is that it is assumed PCs will burn through some of their treasure as they go (using scrolls, wands, potions, etc), and so they should get extra to cover the difference. I didn't think the offset was as high as 25% though.

I'm afraid I don't have a specific suggestion, though - I don't use the treasure tables in the DMG, and it's fair to say I don't rate the MIC as highly as you do (to put it mildly). Other than to note that the WbL table should be treated as little more than a very rough guideline - I'm pretty sure it's not intended for anything more.

 

[wlmartin]

Yep, I do the same.

There's another table in the DMG that gives expected treasure per encounter. I forget exactly where it is, but it's close to WbL. How do your results compare with that?

I think part of the discrepancy is that it is assumed PCs will burn through some of their treasure as they go (using scrolls, wands, potions, etc), and so they should get extra to cover the difference. I didn't think the offset was as high as 25% though.

I'm afraid I don't have a specific suggestion, though - I don't use the treasure tables in the DMG, and it's fair to say I don't rate the MIC as highly as you do (to put it mildly). Other than to note that the WbL table should be treated as little more than a very rough guideline - I'm pretty sure it's not intended for anything more.

Pretty much the same example
I have run various different loot and treasure generators as well as my own tests with the DMG, all come out to be about the same as the expected treasure per encounter...

One thing I forgot to mention, my group is 7 players. I have built an encounter with an EL to account for this, so this shouldn't matter.

Also, when i did the calculation factoring in a 50% resale value of items, i came out with about 109%

The only thing that came to mind was I only did the sum over 1 level (6th) and i didnt calculate outside of that, perhaps 6th is an unusual one


One of the things i love abour pre 4e editions of D&D is the random treasure tables.
I don't like cherry picking out items for players, it feels forced and gamey and takes away from "my" imersion (yes, us DMs get to play the "I want an immersive experience" card too)

There is something fun about a treasure chest or loot from a dead monster that is completely random.
The guy was holding a normal mundane sword but had 2 scrolls of grease on him, how unusual but how interesting!

The idea of having randomn items also brings in random experiences for my players, who knows if they will use that random invis potion they found and how?


I suppose, at worst I could always mix it up a bit. Keep a running tally of the wealth of items the group gets and if it starts to look like I am going to overshoot or even go under the loot over a few encounters then kick it into gear

I have some ideas, just wondered if anyone had seen this before and figured out ways to deal with it

 

[BlackSeed_Vash]

1: My understanding of the MIC random loot, is that scrolls contain a single spell upon them.
2: Honestly I've never noticed a problem with my players having too much wealth while using the MIC. Then again, my players have roleplayed going to the market to ensure they got the best food and wine available to celebrate a (false) victory over a demon cult.
As delericho said,

I think part of the discrepancy is that it is assumed PCs will burn through some of their treasure as they go (using scrolls, wands, potions, etc), and so they should get extra to cover the difference. I didn't think the offset was as high as 25% though.

Also, take into consideration that there are potentially tons of ways players acquire XP. Traps, social encounters, puzzles, monsters without loot (animals, vermin, tons of undead, constructs...) and anything else your mind can think up. Every time your players gain XP without receiving loot, that eats into the 25%.

Personally I think it's never a bad idea to know what your players have. (Once randomly gave them a Golem Slaying Arrow, they forgot about it, so a few months later I threw a construct out of their CR bracket to remind them.) But if you make sure approx. 1 in 4 encounters do not provide loot AND/OR consumes extra non-reusable resources you should be fine.

Off-topic: I really do love the MIC. It provided a ton of new items, they bitch slapped the 1 time use concept with their renewing charges (looking at you Healing Belt), and gave us the Adding/Improving Common Item Effects chart.
No more having to sell the Cloak of Extreme Awesomeness +5 cause I need a Cloak or Resistance to survive. Sure being able to effectively wear both can be overpowered at times, but its hell of a lot less boring for you and the players. Also it makes depriving a player of their wealth a lot easier by having them condense a great deal of gold into fewer items.