Alignment restrictions?

[herrozerro]

It makes me chuckle when someone will write "alignment doesn't matter" and "I hate being restricted by alignment" in the same post. I mean, both can't be right, can they? If you think alignment is too restrictive, then it clearly matters to you.

Not entirely true, it can not matter to the player but that player has to care about it because the dm/group makes it matter.

 

[Shemeska]

They add flavor at times, and divorcing them from the flavor/alignment underpinnings that they've had for most of the game's lifespan can sometimes take something away. If you don't like that always LG paladins, change that for your own game.

Likewise when certain creatures (outsiders) are living personifications of their alignment, stripping out any and all mechanical implications of alignment is just outright poor design.

 

[Shadeydm]

I hope a modular alignment system that could be easily added to the core of 5E would fit the bill for those who want it. Hopefully that module won't be nearly as bad as 4E alignments.

 

[Wiseblood]

I like alignment restrictions. It usually gives the "Good Guys" something special. (And conversely the bad guys) Without a tangible benefit like exclusive classes I feel the game suffers from lack of heroes. (I do good because it makes me feel good to be nice to people I pretend exist.) They suffer no lack of antiheroes or romantic heroes or other self involved quasi doogooders.

Fear of the "straightjacket" keeps players from picking classes that are more than simply amoral or moral. They would be asked to tread a path of a hero or a villain and they cannot abide that.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I like alignment.

For those that don't: Do you object to alignment for outsiders and other exemplary types, or just for mortals?

I have a suspicion that much of the alignment hatred is actually a response to changes in culture since the days of AD&D. We have a *lot* more anti-heroes in our entertainment. There are a lot more shows, movies, etc, where it's less "good vs. evil" and more simply "us vs them." As often as not, the "good guys" are only good because they are on the side that is killing the really bad guys.

Now, I'm not saying I can't enjoy shows and movies like that. I actually do enjoy some of them. But you see, that's a different level/class of entertainment. D&D has traditionally been about good vs. evil, and should stay that way.

I do think better alignment descriptions would be nice though. 3e actually did a pretty good job of describing the different alignments, but you had to read a couple of different places to really "get it." They should make sure the alignment descriptions are quite clear. For instance, it is stated 3e alignment system that the boundary between good and neutral is that a good person will risk their life for someone they have no personal connection to, while a neutral character needs a reason. The context also strongly implies that the boundary between neutral and evil is that an evil character would commit murder if he thought it was expedient, while a neutral character wouldn't...but that implication isn't clearly stated.

In other words, make sure it's idiot-proof. Tall order, but they've had 30 years to work it out, so I think we should be able to come up with descriptions that are broad enough and clear enough that you can see where different characters should fall. And I have absolutely no problem with alignment overlaps, where a character can be interpreted a few different ways based on what's going on inside their personality.

 

[dkyle]

I like alignment.

For those that don't: Do you object to alignment for outsiders and other exemplary types, or just for mortals?

I actually object to alignment being a cosmological "thing" more than mortals having alignments. I'm OK with people self describing as "Lawful Good" or whatever. I don't like alignments being these quasi-physical properties of things.

Now, I'm not saying I can't enjoy shows and movies like that. I actually do enjoy some of them. But you see, that's a different level/class of entertainment. D&D has traditionally been about good vs. evil, and should stay that way.

Don't you mean Law vs. Chaos

But anyway, no, it hasn't been about good vs. evil, not for me. Isn't this the edition where we all get what we want?

 

[tuxgeo]

< . . . snip . . .>
Don't you mean Law vs. Chaos

But anyway, no, it hasn't been about good vs. evil, not for me. Isn't this the edition where we all get what we want?

Um, NO. This (5ENext) is the edition where it can be made to play with the feel of OD&D, or the feel of BECMI, or the feel of AD&D, or the feel of 3E, or the feel of 4E, without giving everyone everything they want.

At least one frequent poster here on EN World would apparently be just as happy to have many of the systems in D&D replaced wholesale with parts from Rolemaster and Burning Wheel, thereby ejecting systems that had made D&D what it has been for decades. My own hope is for D&D to stay true to its own history, instead; and that includes alignment.

 

[dkyle]

Um, NO. This (5ENext) is the edition where it can be made to play with the feel of OD&D, or the feel of BECMI, or the feel of AD&D, or the feel of 3E, or the feel of 4E, without giving everyone everything they want.

I'd be OK with the alignment "feel" of 4E, where it is almost completely devoid of mechanical meaning, and is not a cosmological entity. Ideally, they'd strip out that last shred of mechanical meaning; I don't think that would appreciably change the "feel" of 4E, since there's so little anyway.

 

[GX.Sigma]

I actually object to alignment being a cosmological "thing" more than mortals having alignments. I'm OK with people self describing as "Lawful Good" or whatever. I don't like alignments being these quasi-physical properties of things.

Many (including I) would make the argument that a devil "is" evil, just as much as a fire elemental "is" fire.

 

[eamon]

Many (including I) would make the argument that a devil "is" evil, just as much as a fire elemental "is" fire.

Yeah. And I'd like such a prototypes to have their alignment embedded throughout the creature; not just in a refluffable label. Full of little details to make the creatures spring to life in imagination .