Alright well I know there's a SW II thread...

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Sorry about the Matrix rant, Hellbender. I actually think it's good escapism (not great, but certainly entertaining), but it's more or less devoid of intellect. I get really irritated when people slam the new Star Wars movies for being mindless commercialism and then go on to rave about what a great movie the Matrix is. That's like saying the old He-Man cartoons had great plot and characters with depth, but Robotech was mindless drivel. It puts everything out of context.

 

[Eosin the Red]

Canis wrote:

The plot of the Matrix was clearly cobbled together in order to create an excuse to have people doing kung-fu and dodging bullets in slow motion.

This is funny to me. I loved Star Wars. Wasn't thrilled with PM but the depth of the plot in AotC is really astounding (if you look for it - or maybe I just hit the crack pipe one too many times). The acting....ughh. Hard to defend it.

Where is all of this going? It looks like the plot of the Matrix comes from exactly the same place as Star Wars. I think it is a new Star Wars with its own mythology, but it is essentially the story of Luke told in cyberspace.

Boy with destiny lives a life sheltered from the real world.
Boy leaves real world and engages in many harrowing escapes.
Boy returns to face enemy for friend...
Boy beaten..
Boy finds love and greater meaning..
Boy returns and kicks hiney.

Same story. Same appeal. Thats the way I see it anyway.

But Padme the way hotter babe.

 

[Steven McRownt]

Canis wrote:


This is funny to me. I loved Star Wars. Wasn't thrilled with PM but the depth of the plot in AotC is really astounding (if you look for it - or maybe I just hit the crack pipe one too many times). The acting....ughh. Hard to defend it.

First of all there are emotional differences between The Matrix and Star Wars.

We -or at least the majority of us- grew up watching the old trilogy. We were expecting to continue our dreams started almost 25 years ago. Episode I and II were so... insignificant. It's not just a plot problem. After all we never mind of all the incongruences in the old trilogy. The problem is that there's not a story at all. There's not a real effort to make things go right. And there is no HUMOUR. Who remember all the jokes, the sarcasm and irony that filled up our dear classic SW? There's no trace in episodes I and II.

Matrix arrived as nearly a surprise. I liked it. I will watch the second part, without too much expectations. That's perhaps the good thing. You can't see a new SW episode without all your expectations.

Steven McRownt

 

[Black Omega]

Interesting Matrix is brought up here. For me Matrix is on the same level as AotC. Great eyecandy and special effects. Not terribly original, but I picked up more on the Hong Kong influence in Matrix than any old 50's influence. In any case, Matrix was shallow but fun. Unless you believe the guy claiming it was really an accurate retelling of pre-Christian gnostic philosophy so subversive it's been repressed for centuries and they only got away with the movie because it was so well hidden the international conspiracy didn't see it.

AotC had a little more depth for me because of the foreshadowing and the homages to past Star Wars events.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think the worst thing of SW 2 was the acting.
The emotions weren`t transported well - maybe it was also the director`s fault, who knows? I am not a film expert.

The special effects were better than SW 1 (I couldn`t count the Pixels ), and the story was more interesting.

Oh, ans speaking from humour - maybe we miss Harrison Ford? Indiana Jones, Han Solo, both characters have humour.

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I think the worst thing of SW 2 was the acting.
The emotions weren`t transported well - maybe it was also the director`s fault, who knows? I am not a film expert.

I've heard a lot of people say that Lucas is not at his best when dealing with actors. I can't imagine anyone else directing the effects guys at ILM, that's really Lucas' baby, but I have to admit after seeing Natalie Portman's performance in AOTC that I'd like to see him bring in a consultant or something for EpIII. I KNOW she's better than that. Maybe Spielberg owes him a favor or something.

Again, sorry for the Matrix tangent. I've developed a chip on my shoulder about that movie from hanging out on the wrong messageboards.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Rereading my last post - somehow, I am getting what... "disturbs" us seeing the new movies.

There are no rougeish / scoundrel characters. No Lando, no Han.

We only have some Jedi, and a Senator. Okay, and some Droids...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Ristamar]

Somewhat on the topic of humor... I know a lot of people groaned about Threepio's lines in the latest flick. Personally, I didn't mind them. I expect... no, I want Threepio to act like a total dork and say stupid things in a Star Wars movie. It just feels... right. *shrug*

 

[Eosin the Red]

We -or at least the majority of us- grew up watching the old trilogy. We were expecting to continue our dreams started almost 25 years ago.

Glad to know we are about the same age....

Episode I and II were so... insignificant. It's not just a plot problem. After all we never mind of all the incongruences in the old trilogy. The problem is that there's not a story at all. There's not a real effort to make things go right.

I disagree. There was a deeper plot & story in AotC than any other SW movie to date. If the acting and dialogue had been of average quality, the movie would surpass ESB.

We all do know what the story is? The fall of Anakin Skywalker -- we knew that 10 years ago. If it was cool to watch his redemption in RotJ - why isn't it cool to watch his fall in AotC? Don't say story unless you hated the original series ---that is where the story comes from.

There are flaws in the movie but total condemnation of it (especially for the reasons you suggest) sound like sour grapes to me. I am proud to be a geek that remains in love with SW. I love it that for a little while last week I was 11 years old again.

Do yourself a favor don't see anymore of the movies. If they can't take you back to that magical place (which they did for millions) than it will only encourage to poison the well (again) for the rest of us. You have every right to gripe about this movie -you paid money. But it becomes more and more unbelievable that all of the "I saw it when I was 15 and he has betrayed my vision. It is crap. I hate it" people continually return to the theaters time and again for something you hate. I watched Leprachaun in the theaters and I hated it. I have not even bothered to watch Leaprachaun II, III, or IV. I definatly can't quote the movie.

It is more cool to hate things and destroy them today. I don't need to be cool. I have been a geek all my life. The acting could have been much better. The directing could have been much better. The plot and story rocked. Unless you weren't looking.

And there is no HUMOUR. Who remember all the jokes, the sarcasm and irony that filled up our dear classic SW? There's no trace in episodes I and II.

It is the same cornball humor - It works alot better when you are 12 than when you are 35? Our tastes inevitebaly do change. GL humor apparently does not.


The only place your vision of "Our dear classic SW" has been betrayed is in your head. Many of us would have liked things to be different -- but this is SW. I wish things were done my way (Yoda would not fight) but they are still wonderful.

"My dear classic SW" is playing in theaters right now. Let your inner geek out!!

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Rereading my last post - somehow, I am getting what... "disturbs" us seeing the new movies.

There are no rougeish / scoundrel characters. No Lando, no Han.

I think this boils down to our age again. I don't know about any of you, but Han Solo didn't become as interesting as Luke Skywalker until I was maybe 11 or 12. As a really young kid, the Jedi are much, MUCH cooler. Most of the kids I knew growing up were the same.

So, IMO we got older and shifted to identifying with the scoundrel, the skeptic, when we lost their affinity for mysticism and idealism (Dunsany would have a field day with this). So, in the new movies, all we have among the good guys are the mystics and idealists, and we can't relate. That's not a weakness of the movies, but a weakness in us, the audience. I suppose Lucas could throw in a scoundrel character to appease us, but how would such a character fit in? This story is all about the disintegration of the Jedi and the Republic. Rogues need not apply.