D&D 5E Alternate Initiative Rules

[Nebulous]

So myself and another DM were mulling over some options. We don't like the default roll d20 and add Dex. It works, but it's also boring after years of the same thing, and it puts a ton of emphasis on Dex which is already super important. So we thought about stealing Perception skill as Initiative from PF2.

That works well for PCs, but monsters don't get great Perception skills in the core MM, and most aren't even listed, or they'll have a +0 or +1 Wisdom, which in this system would be a poor Initiative. In addition, he was toying with the idea of eschewing the d20 roll completely (bear with me) and using class and monster HIT DIE to replace it, and adding Perception to that.

So, your fighter types (d12, d10) would be on average higher, but still tempered by a high or low Perception. A little more math would be involved, but it takes the onus away from Dex and swingy d20. We are going to try it next session and just see what happens.

Has anyone tried something like that and how did it work/not work for you?

 

[Horwath]

We replaced d20 with d12 for initiative at it is less random and added wis together with dex to init roll.

 

[dave2008]

We replaced d20 with d12 for initiative at it is less random and added wis together with dex to init roll.

Interesting, care to share how that has worked for your group? Has it been an improvement or made initiative more interesting or fun? Or has it been simply a roll that is calculated differently?

 

[akr71]

I miss weapon speed as a factor toward initiative. I'm not saying I would bring it back, because dex/finesse weapons are already too heavily favored, but I still miss it. Penalizing heavy weapons at this point would hurt my monsters more than my players.

Off the top of my head, if I were to homebrew something, I would use a weapon's damage dice to mimic weapon speed. Sticking with highest init goes first, then the weapon speed modifier would be subtracted from the init roll. Maybe apply the average damage as a Initiative modifier?

Spells? I don't know, but perhaps the modifier is the spell level.

I would also consider allowing Intelligence to be used as a Initiative Modifier.

 

[Iry]

We tried the Three Tier initiative system. Essentially all martial classes were Fast, all primary casters were Slow, and everyone else was Medium.

So you would say "Fast is up!" then all the Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins, etc would simultaneously resolve their turns. "Medium is up!" which was mostly NPCs and monsters the DM didn't think counted as Fast or Slow. "Slow is up!" Which is the Bards, Clerics, Wizards, etc resolving their turns last.

 

[Nebulous]

We tried the Three Tier initiative system. Essentially all martial classes were Fast, all primary casters were Slow, and everyone else was Medium.

So you would say "Fast is up!" then all the Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins, etc would simultaneously resolve their turns. "Medium is up!" which was mostly NPCs and monsters the DM didn't think counted as Fast or Slow. "Slow is up!" Which is the Bards, Clerics, Wizards, etc resolving their turns last.

How did the monsters move?

 

[DND_Reborn]

So myself and another DM were mulling over some options. We don't like the default roll d20 and add Dex. It works, but it's also boring after years of the same thing, and it puts a ton of emphasis on Dex which is already super important. So we thought about stealing Perception skill as Initiative from PF2.

That works well for PCs, but monsters don't get great Perception skills in the core MM, and most aren't even listed, or they'll have a +0 or +1 Wisdom, which in this system would be a poor Initiative. In addition, he was toying with the idea of eschewing the d20 roll completely (bear with me) and using class and monster HIT DIE to replace it, and adding Perception to that.

So, your fighter types (d12, d10) would be on average higher, but still tempered by a high or low Perception. A little more math would be involved, but it takes the onus away from Dex and swingy d20. We are going to try it next session and just see what happens.

Has anyone tried something like that and how did it work/not work for you?

We use DEX, INT, or WIS (player's choice) to modify the roll. Have you used the variant speed factors and other options?

There are tons of options available that are more complex, but for our table it just slows things down too much. However, things like the Greyhawk system work well, and for a while we did a variant where you rolled 2d10, using the first die for your action or move and the other for whatever the first didn't represent. But with that system, the lower rolls go first so you have to subtract DEX (or whatever).

Another option is applying proficiency bonus since more experienced characters and powerful monsters would be better able to find their "opening" earlier.

Just how complex a system are you looking for?

 

[Iry]

How did the monsters move?

The DM would decide beforehand if a monster was Fast or Slow, like a Fey Assassin was probably Fast and an Earth Titan was probably Slow. And if it didn't thematically fit either, then they went on Medium.

 

[Nebulous]

We use DEX, INT, or WIS (player's choice) to modify the roll. Have you used the variant speed factors and other options?

There are tons of options available that are more complex, but for our table it just slows things down too much. However, things like the Greyhawk system work well, and for a while we did a variant where you rolled 2d10, using the first die for your action or move and the other for whatever the first didn't represent. But with that system, the lower rolls go first so you have to subtract DEX (or whatever).

Another option is applying proficiency bonus since more experienced characters and powerful monsters would be better able to find their "opening" earlier.

Just how complex a system are you looking for?

Not too complex. We have new players, and too much stuff will overwhelm them. I wish weapon speed factor and segment casting (remember that??) were doable, but it would just slow stuff down too much. I don't want ANY subtraction, just simple math. And I need something viable for monsters too that is easy to calculate on the fly.

 

[Nebulous]

The DM would decide beforehand if a monster was Fast or Slow, like a Fey Assassin was probably Fast and an Earth Titan was probably Slow. And if it didn't thematically fit either, then they went on Medium.

Did it ever get redundant with initiatives the same all the time?

I used to use a card system for Initiative based on Dex (there's a long thread on Enworld somewhere years back) and it worked great, but I would like to try something else now.