Alternate Smackdown - Psychic Warrior v. Fighter

[Elder-Basilisk]

Putting the troll in an encounter without armor really doesn't make it a fair comparison. The troll's damage goes up exponentially the lower a target's AC is because of his rend ability. I would expect that being a dwarf is the best way to survive that encounter.

Also, 6th level is one of the optimal comparison points for the fighter. 2 attacks is far better than 1 attack. The fighter's advantage won't be as great at any level outside of 6-7.

All told, it's an interesting comparison but I don't think it tells us any more than the other comparison.

 

[Patlin]

All told, it's an interesting comparison but I don't think it tells us any more than the other comparison.

I don't think I expected it to tell us more, just to tell us something about a different part of the game. I've had a lot more campaigns last at least 6 levels than at least 20, myself. I've had a *lot* of builds that were going to develop late and be super powerful except the campaign ended before we got there. One super-build even got killed by 3.5 coming out before it really hit stride, and changing the rules on me...

If the point of the exercise is to determine whether the Psychic Warrior is balanced in comparison to the fighter, it would be nice to have a bunch of data points.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I like this approach better, but I think level 9 is a more fair comparison. The PW has his 2nd attack but is lagging noticeably in BAB. My personal opinion is the Fighter class peaks in relative power in the level range of 6-12. 9 is comfortably towards the middle of that range. Level 7 favors the Fighter becaue the PW is hurting for that 2nd iterative attack. Level 8 favors the PW because he just gets his 2nd iterative attack. Level 10 favors the PW because the Fighter does not quite have his third. IMO the best choices are 9 or 11 for comparison.

Level 9 is a mature character that has had a chance to build up interesting feat trees and show his stuff.

Level 9 characters also do not have have insane amounts of equipment so it is easier to build them.

If you want a low level character comparison, choose level 3.

 

[Antoine]

If you want a low level character comparison, choose level 3.

Level 3 Ftr has a full plate armor, a shield (or a pole arm), and up to 5 feats.
Meaning an AC up to 24 (then may add dodge + fight defensively) for 16 hours a day.
Hard time for runner-ups.

 

[Patlin]

Level 3 Ftr has a full plate armor, a shield (or a pole arm), and up to 5 feats.
Meaning an AC up to 24 (then may add dodge + fight defensively) for 16 hours a day.
Hard time for runner-ups.

Psychic warrior has all of that and three powers. Bad place for the fighter, I think.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

He's got less BAB and slightly fewer hit points though. That makes a big difference at these levels. And he doesn't have many points to power those powers.

Level 4 might be better--it would give the fighter weapon specialization and the psywar a single second level power but one could complain that stopping right when the PsyWar aquires Hustle or Psionic Lion's Charge skews the comparison. On the other hand, he probably doesn't have enough points to do them more than 3 times a day so a gauntlet like this may minimize that complaint.

I think the thing to realize in the PsyWar/Ftr comparison is that you're basically comparing the value of BAB, a few hit points, and a couple feats to the value of powers and psionic feats. The Fighter and PsyWar will tend to have similar kinds of equipment (at least at low-mid levels). They do similar things. Etc. So, the real question is whether it's worth giving up a couple feats, weapon specialization, etc, 1hp/level (on average), and full BAB for PsyWar powers. One of the interesting things in the other thread is that Scion's PsiWar 20 is completely focussed upon maximizing the use of his powers so that it really does become a powers vs. BAB comparison.

Psychic warrior has all of that and three powers. Bad place for the fighter, I think.

 

[Patlin]

one could complain that stopping right when the PsyWar aquires Hustle or Psionic Lion's Charge skews the comparison.

Except that psionic lion's charge is nearly useless when you first get it, especially if you don't have other powers up. If a full attack is 1 attack, what's the point? +1 damage once, for 4 power points? Bad deal.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

If the PsiWar is a two weapon fighter, it's quite useful. Still, that's a very good point. Hustle is pretty much the same as far as I can tell. I always think about those powers in the context of higher level characters and it's easy to forget that when you've only got one attack there's not much difference between a partial and a full attack.

Except that psionic lion's charge is nearly useless when you first get it, especially if you don't have other powers up. If a full attack is 1 attack, what's the point? +1 damage once, for 4 power points? Bad deal.

 

[Scion]

man, that dwarf.. out of 36 attacks he hit with 34.. I dont think that is a valid comparison somehow Also, those bad guys are apparently useing no tactics at all (keep on charging into a threat zone over and over)

I'll come in with a 6th level psychic warrior later..lol

 

[Evilhalfling]

Ceiling height?
Paul Hamm
Psiwar 6
Str 16,Dx 16, Cn 14, int 8, Wis 14, Chr 8
Feats: Psionic Talent, Psionic Body, Psionic weapon, skillfocus Concentration
WF- Battle Axe, Psi Meditation, Expand Knowledge - Psionic Charm
Skills Concentration 14, Auto Hypnosis 7, Languages goblin, orc, common
Psp 11+6 wisdom+2feat = 19
Hp 33 + 12 con + 12 Psi Body = 57 hp
AC 10 + 2 shield +3 Dex +4 Inertial Armor = 19
Powers : DC 12+ spell lvl
Inertial armor, disipating touch, Precog defensive, Psionic Charm (EK)
Body Adjust, Levitate : Empathitic Transfer Hostile
Battle Axe - +8 (1d8+3) , intiative + 3

Assuming he can't levitate and charm with impunity the fight goes this way -
Set up - Psionically focused, intertial armor (6 hours)
Round 1
Bugbears win intiative and charge the flatfooted Paul - rolling a pair of 6's
Paul stands unarmed - and manifests charm person - in a nonthreating manner - Bugbear saves.
Round 2 - Both bugbears miss, Paul fails his Defensive casting - psp now 16
Round 3 - BBs Miss, paul shrugs drawing his axe and smashing the BB with psionic charge - 13 hp dmg
rn 4 finally a Bugbear hits - 9dmg, paul hits it again - killing it
rnd 5-6 no attacks connect
rnd 7 Paul takes 5 the bugbear takes 4
round 8 both miss - taking time to recover
round 9 Paul hits again for 11 - leaving the desperate bugbear at 1 hp
round 10 Bugbears last paniced shot deals 6 hp, paul finished him
Aftermath -
Paul uses body ajustment for 10 hp -
Hp 47, psp 13
He refocuses and slips his axe back in his belt.

Paul streches and waits for the next event.

Minotaur appears. Paul was ready (wins initiative) and hits him with an augmented Charm (3 psp-effects gaints & monsterous humanoids)
but not this time.
Minotaur lowers his head and runs at full speed - Critical Hit ! Confirmed!
Paul looks like he is out of this contest at 7 hp.

Round 2
Paul casts defensively, uses empathatic transfer and hits with touch attack
minotaur makes his save and only takes 25, while paul heals 50 hp
this minotaur shocked by the sudden reversal misses with full attacks.

Round 3
Paul draws axe, expends focus and smashes the minotaur for 15 dmg

He pulls out the upset! a combat miracle !
He refocuses, sheaths his axe and waits.
hp 57 psp 8