Alternative: Girls (females) in D&D/ Roleplaying

[Hussar]

Heh, just saw this article Why isn't the a Gender neutral Pronoun at Futurismic.

Thought it was fitting for this thread.

 

[Umbran]

The important lesson here is that, no matter how deep a hole you dug for yourself, singular "they" never helped you out of it.

No, I think the important lesson is, "Having the last word doesn't make you correct."

 

[Cadfan]

1. Yes.

2. Yes. This one is difficult because its hard to do this without making oversensitive males feel like they're under attack. Its also particularly difficult because I do think that there's an appropriate place for goggling at pinup art, I just don't think that place is in a coed setting where women are intended to feel like they're part of the group instead of the group's quarry. Maybe this would explain how I feel about it... I think its ok if some things in life are a "boy's club." Boys need clubs too, and part of growing up is engaging in that sort of lame, pubescent "ale and whores" joking that quite understandably makes most females uncomfortable. But an entire social activity shouldn't be a boy's club; that's exclusionary. Negotiating the difference between these two values is a genuine difficulty.

3. I would be if I were recruiting. I'm not. My group is made up of people I knew from before we played. It is 50% female. The only significant other playing only because his partner is playing is male.

4. I would be willing to if I knew of a way to usefully do so. I do go out of my way to get people to play eurogames.

5. Yes.

6. I'm not a kid person. I'd applaud you for doing it though.

7. I would if I felt it was needed. Overall, I haven't found this to be a problem.

8. Hadn't found the need to do so.

9. Yes, I do this.

 

[Odhanan]

1. Have you or are you willing to (AYWT) make a distinction between the positive portrayal of women in games/ gaming and sexist portrayals?
2. Have you or AYWT accept that the consistent use of pictures of bikini-clad women strolling through snowfields alongside rug-wrapped barbarian men is potentially discouraging for some female gamers?
3. Have you or AYWT go out of your way to recruit or encourage girls/ females to join a gaming group?
4. Have you or AYWT go out of your way to encourage girls/ females to join RPG communities?
5. Have you or AYWT tell a publisher, (by email, blog or f2F), that you'd like to see more positive portrayals of women in RPGs?
6. Have you or AYWT present youngsters with equal opportunities to get involved in RPGs?
7. Have you or AYWT adapt rules, settings and gameplay to offer a mix or balance of mystery, exploration, investigation, characterisation and novelty alongside combat-focused gameplay? (Either to encourage all kids equally or females).
8. Have you or AYWT adjust your RPG purchasing habits to at least limit sexist content/ contexts?
9. Have you or AYWT actively discourage obvious and persistent sexism at your game table, e.g. don't laugh along with the jokes/ speak up if a female player appears uncomfortable with some of what's being said?

1. Yes.
2. Some? Yes. For others, no.
3. Yes. My Ptolus campaign group was 100% female but for me, the DM.
4. No, not especially. That's their choice to go further than our game and participate to RPG communities. I'll encourage it, for sure, but not go out of my way to push them towards it.
5. I remember discussing it on Monte Cook's forums, actually, but not in the sense that women were "unfairly" portrayed in RPGs. I was pointing out that some women actually don't care or LIKE playing these women, while others might be indeed bothered by such representations. I distinctly remember Sue Cook pointing out she wasn't bothered by chainmail bikinis and such, for instance.
6. Sure.
7. Sure. I always do adapt the game's contents to the particular players' expectations. That's part of the job.
8. I don't need to. I don't go for sexist content. I don't care for it.
9. Never happened to me. All the women I've played with had humor, and were quite capable of shooting right back at men if someone was making a stupid joke. Sounds to me like the women you know need to grow some guts and either learn about witty humor, or confront it head on and point out they don't like it. It almost sounds to me like you're doing some reverse-sexism, by white-knighting women when they are often quite capable of defending themselves. What gives?

 

[Insight]

I'm more than a little surprised that, given the subject matter, this thread hasn't been shut down yet. I hope intelligent discussion can continue.

 

[Dausuul]

It almost sounds to me like you're doing some reverse-sexism, by white-knighting women when they are often quite capable of defending themselves. What gives?

Complaining on someone else's behalf that that person is being white-knighted... irony, thy name is Internet.

 

[Afrodyte]

You left out appeals to not perpetuating sexist stereotypes, appeals to ambiguity being okay or even preferable in some situations, appeals to not wanting to type he/she eight hundred times, and appeals to wanting a pronoun when you wish to purposefully not disclose someone's gender.

Yay for going beyond gender binaries! And for undermining male by default!

 

[Afrodyte]

I don't believe I'm your intended audience for this (assuming that you're speaking to or about male gamers when you ask these questions), but it's an interesting topic, so I want to contribute.

Have you or are you willing to (AYWT) make a distinction between the positive portrayal of women in games/ gaming and sexist portrayals?

There's no willing or unwilling about it. It's something I do simply by virtue of being a woman living in a sexist society. There's nothing logical or rational about it - it's a kind of instinct I have, sort of the way some unfamiliar guys can feel "off" or creepy when you meet him.

Have you or AYWT accept that the consistent use of pictures of bikini-clad women strolling through snowfields alongside rug-wrapped barbarian men is potentially discouraging for some female gamers?

Again, there's no willing or unwilling about it. I feel either encouraged or discouraged because the images tell me what women are meant to be in that world.

Have you or AYWT go out of your way to recruit or encourage girls/ females to join a gaming group?

No. Generally speaking I am the woman who was recruited into the group. It's more a question of getting me to stay. It helps if the group doesn't get me in and then proceed to talk over me and/or tell me what to do.

Have you or AYWT go out of your way to encourage girls/ females to join RPG communities?

I join things like that on my own. As you may have seen, it's more a matter of not discouraging me than it is of encouraging me. A subtle but important difference.

Have you or AYWT tell a publisher, (by email, blog or f2F), that you'd like to see more positive portrayals of women in RPGs?

Unfortunately, the way many male gamers react to even the slightest critique or the slightest attempt at increasing social consciousness makes me realize it's really not worth it.

Have you or AYWT present youngsters with equal opportunities to get involved in RPGs?

No. I'm cool with teenagers, but many of the things I want to explore in gaming would be a little much for a 12-year-old.

Have you or AYWT adapt rules, settings and gameplay to offer a mix or balance of mystery, exploration, investigation, characterisation and novelty alongside combat-focused gameplay? (Either to encourage all kids equally or females).

No. And I think that's the wrong way to go about it. Why is simply asking us what we want is so damn hard?

Have you or AYWT adjust your RPG purchasing habits to at least limit sexist content/ contexts?

I don't buy that crap if I can help it. But if it's in the core rules, and I really like the system or the setting, there's not much I can do. Why deprive myself for the image of inclusion instead of calling on fellow gamers to practice greater inclusiveness themselves?

Have you or AYWT actively discourage obvious and persistent sexism at your game table, e.g. don't laugh along with the jokes/ speak up if a female player appears uncomfortable with some of what's being said?

Yes. Especially when the men at the table act like I'm invisible or that I'm not a woman because they don't want to sleep with me. I've done it before when my group was talking about some "hot Asian girls" like they were packs of meat. I . . . wasn't too keen on that, and I expressed my displeasure with a curt, "Not cool." They knew it was pretty messed up because I didn't even have to explain it.

 

[nedjer]

I don't believe I'm your intended audience for this (assuming that you're speaking to or about male gamers when you ask these questions), but it's an interesting topic, so I want to contribute.


There's no willing or unwilling about it. It's something I do simply by virtue of being a woman living in a sexist society. There's nothing logical or rational about it - it's a kind of instinct I have, sort of the way some unfamiliar guys can feel "off" or creepy when you meet him.



Again, there's no willing or unwilling about it. I feel either encouraged or discouraged because the images tell me what women are meant to be in that world.



No. Generally speaking I am the woman who was recruited into the group. It's more a question of getting me to stay. It helps if the group doesn't get me in and then proceed to talk over me and/or tell me what to do.



I join things like that on my own. As you may have seen, it's more a matter of not discouraging me than it is of encouraging me. A subtle but important difference.



Unfortunately, the way many male gamers react to even the slightest critique or the slightest attempt at increasing social consciousness makes me realize it's really not worth it.



No. I'm cool with teenagers, but many of the things I want to explore in gaming would be a little much for a 12-year-old.



No. And I think that's the wrong way to go about it. Why is simply asking us what we want is so damn hard?



I don't buy that crap if I can help it. But if it's in the core rules, and I really like the system or the setting, there's not much I can do. Why deprive myself for the image of inclusion instead of calling on fellow gamers to practice greater inclusiveness themselves?



Yes. Especially when the men at the table act like I'm invisible or that I'm not a woman because they don't want to sleep with me. I've done it before when my group was talking about some "hot Asian girls" like they were packs of meat. I . . . wasn't too keen on that, and I expressed my displeasure with a curt, "Not cool." They knew it was pretty messed up because I didn't even have to explain it.

That was meant to be a LOL not a . . .

 

[Odhanan]

Complaining on someone else's behalf that that person is being white-knighted... irony, thy name is Internet.

Indeed. I think there's even more irony to it as you think there is.