Alternative Ways for Awarding Treasure Besides Tomb Robbing?

[Ondath]

The topic I'm discussing only applies to a specific subset of TTRPGs: Namely, those with an item/wealth-based progression. D&D is the ur-example of course, what with dungeon delving and treasure seeking being the primary motivator in the early days of the game. I'm well aware that this isn't universal for TTRPGs, and that there are plenty of games where wealth and items are either abstracted, or are considered a fix part of your character that does not need to evolve even if the game has a different progression system (think the Resources background in WoD games. You can play a pretty rich character from the get-go or one that's scraping by, and the game doesn't assume you'll get more dots over time, though you're welcome if you want to). I'm interested solely in games where the assumption that your character will get richer/get cooler items over time is baked in.

When getting more money is an inherent part of the core gameplay loop, it leads to a lot of fun play opportunities. PCs have a nonmoral justification for going on adventures together. If the game offers things to spend your treasures on (which is something 5E fails to do), getting more treasure means having more character choices, and spending treasure becomes an alternate character progression system. And of course, players like for their PCs to have shiny things, so there's a deep psychological satisfaction in finding and taking that phat loot.

Having said that, in my experience with DMing, this wealth progression system leads to an interesting clash of play styles. The expectation that players will get progressively higher amounts of treasure seems to imply some game elements that don't entirely gel with contemporary play styles, namely, the fact that most treasure obtained in such games comes from robbing tombs or pillaging differently-coded folks. Don't get me wrong, I think a playstyle where the party goes after some inherently evil creatures and gets all the wealth & glory off of the adventure is perfectly valid. It leads to a Conan-esque story that is enjoyable in its own right. But if we look at the kind of stories that people try to replicate in modern TTRPGs (and most importantly D&D), Conan-esque sword & sorcery is on the way out. People play games where their characters are heroes who fight evil because it's the right thing to do, and in these cases pillaging your enemy's stronghold does not seem to gel with the tropes that you'd find in such a story. Aang doesn't pick the armour Fire Nation soldiers wear after combat, and the Avengers don't really get their wealth from their adventures.

Hence my question (3 paragraphs to get to the discussion prompt, I know...): If you run a heroic game in a TTRPG system with wealth progression, how do your players get treasure (and magic items etc.)? Do you just accept that in your universe the victor gets all the possessions of the defeated? Do your questgivers handle the majority of the rewards? Did you make item progression abstract in some other way? What are some ways you deviate from the typical tomb robbing/pillaging treasure collection TTRPGs usually assume?

This doesn't mean that it is impossible to have a wealth progression system in a heroic game, of course. Lots of GMs do so succesfully. Hell, I do it in my games all the time. It's just that the overthinking part of my brain dislikes the inherent opposition in these two play styles, and I'm trying to see if alternatives exist to "These guys are selfless heroes who take on morally justified quests, but the majority of their wealth and magic items comes from robbing tombs and taking the possessions of their enemies". Not that the style I just described is inherently bad, I'm just trying to see how we could move past it.

 

[Yora]

My setting has plenty of abandoned sorcerer's towers, old demonic temples, and bandit camps.

Also, any bounty paid for recovering something from a dungeon is effectively the same as a treasure taken from a dungeon. You just have to exchange the head of the big monster for a sack of gold instead of taking the sack of gold from the dungeon.

 

[Ondath]

My setting has plenty of abandoned sorcerer's towers, old demonic temples, and bandit camps.

I guess that deals with some of the moral qualms about finding loot, but I'd say it still falls under tomb robbing (getting stuff you don't own from abandoned places) or pillaging (getting the possessions of the defeated bandits/demonic cultists). One idea I had (as far as getting loot from ruins is concerned, at least) was following the law of salvage: In real life maritime law there is the rule that anyone who helps recover another person's ship or cargo is entitled to some compensation proportional to the value of the salvaged goods. Perhaps one way of going out of the paradigm of "adventurers going into places and claiming abandoned items as their own" would be there being a "law of adventurers" where people who venture into ruins are entitled to some compensation by the ruler of the land, which usually takes the form of the adventurers skimming a bit from the gold and magic items they found.

 

[Reynard]

I would say that heroes doing heroic things is at least perpendicular, if not opposed to, adventuring for wealth progression. Are the characters heroes or mercenaries?

But be that as it may, if wealth progression is important and you don't want your PCs to pillage the dead or loot cultural artifacts, just pay them. The Good King gives them magic items from the Royal Treasury, or the Mages Guild rewards them with enchanted gear for services rendered. Or just cold hard cash.

Another option is to structure wealth progression as active recovery of items formerly looted from the good guys, with an explicit indication that it is okay to use the stuff they find in service of recovering even more stolen artifacts. Maybe a dragon's hoard was looted, but the dragon was actually a good being protecting the Artifacts of the Realm. Now the PCs have to get it all back. or any number of other similar setups.

Finally, if the reason for wealth progression is baked into the game in such a way that it is necessary, maybe disconnect the bonuses/abilities from gear and call it boons from the gods or whatever. You don't et a +1 sword at 4th level, you get a magic aura that acts as a +1 magic tag for melee attacks.

 

[billd91]

A friend of mine ran a 3e game (heavy on the psionics) in which he didn't give out treasure. The various adventures were missions the PCs were sent on and, rather than have them loot and pillage, they were kitted out with level-appropriate gear each mission. So they were continually able to change up what they were using from level to level, never worried about tracking loot and treasure value (and stealing from their opponents), and were always meeting the expectations of the system and its challenges.

Another option is to treat the loot as rewards given out by the people who are heroically aided/protected/saved by the PCs. "The City of Cheapham would like to recognize your heroism and bestow upon you a gift. We don't have much but we were able to find these winged boots once worn by Sir Long-gone, a hero of the city of years past..."

 

[Tonguez]

So rather than being freelance tombrobbers,

1 the PCs get paid bounties for doing jobs OR work as mercenaries for various Lords/Factions/Questgivers

2 the organisation load out is also possible - ie PCs work as specialist for an organisation and everytime they get sent on a mission they get supplied with a kit of gear (they can choose some bonus extras)

3 the PCs are merchants/pilgrims/villagers/troubadors NOT adventurers they are earning a living doing decent work but then get caught up in some hijinks

4 the City builder game - PCs are given undeveloped land in the Marches and commissioned to clear it out and develop it. Thats the whole premise of the sandbox…

 

[Mezuka]

Grand-parents of some characters have hidden magical items they acquired when they were young. The PCs earned them after helping save the village. There are many possible variations of this.

 

[Mezuka]

Progressive magical items. Some items sense the PC has acquired more experience and unlocks a new power. What appears like a puny wand of magic missiles can become a mighty object.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

In one of my D&D settings, the King realised how much treasure there is within his kingdom in old dungeons and monster hordes, that he declared it all Property of the Crown. Adventurers get a "finder's fee" for gathering and turning it in.

It's not any more moral, but it does come approved by the law of the land. And it gives Players the quandary of keeping treasure for themselves, which would be Stealing from the Crown or handing it in, which would come with fame, royal favour, and pressure to do it again.

So more like doubling down on the idea that Adventurers are mercenary tomb-robbers, rather than avoiding it! At least in that setting, It's Official!

 

[Mannahnin]

Finally, if the reason for wealth progression is baked into the game in such a way that it is necessary, maybe disconnect the bonuses/abilities from gear and call it boons from the gods or whatever. You don't et a +1 sword at 4th level, you get a magic aura that acts as a +1 magic tag for melee attacks.

I had a setting/campaign once in which the PCs were employed specifically to act against evil priests and cults and take away their evil magic artifacts to disempower them. The good temples had altars and rituals which would immolate these evil items and receive a "gem" in return from the gods, which would be given to the PCs and could be attached to their weapons or other gear to empower them as magic items.