Alternatives to heavy armor for clerics?

Sorry, brain fart. I meant Magic Initiate feat not Practiced Caster, which is a feat in 3rd edition/Pathfinder and does something completely different.

I've sent in the editing ninjas.
 

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Some of you seem to have the wrong idea about why I started this thread. I'm not asking from the perspective of a player who's trying to wheedle the GM into giving me something I want in exchange for something I don't want. I'm asking from the perspective of a (potential) GM who doesn't care for the RAW and is trying to find acceptable substitutes.

Now, if you're perfectly happy with the RAW, that's fine. Nobody is forcing you to change anything. But I'm getting tired of the repeated implications that I'm wrong-headed for not being on-board with the notion that clerics should be heavily-armored by default.

Wyvern
 

Now, if you're perfectly happy with the RAW, that's fine. Nobody is forcing you to change anything. But I'm getting tired of the repeated implications that I'm wrong-headed for not being on-board with the notion that clerics should be heavily-armored by default.
I'm afraid you will find that this is how it works. What can one do? I would just ignore responses you don't find relevant. I think you have had some responses that do speak to your questions.
 

Some of you seem to have the wrong idea about why I started this thread. I'm not asking from the perspective of a player who's trying to wheedle the GM into giving me something I want in exchange for something I don't want. I'm asking from the perspective of a (potential) GM who doesn't care for the RAW and is trying to find acceptable substitutes.

Now, if you're perfectly happy with the RAW, that's fine. Nobody is forcing you to change anything. But I'm getting tired of the repeated implications that I'm wrong-headed for not being on-board with the notion that clerics should be heavily-armored by default.

Wyvern
Wyvern, i think what many are trying to say is as a GM removing hvy arm **and** giving a buff to replace it is going to beef up the build who already would play it in medium or light unnecessarily.

The heavy armor proficiency is more garnish than meal because the very takes on the sib-classes you seek are already powerful.

Its "too easy" to just lump those who disagree with you into that kind of dont want change blind thinking kneejerks. It also does not advance anything.

In my games, i anticipate most nature clerics are going to be in medium, but if the player has an idea for why, why should i say no or charge him a feat for it?

For example, consider a dwarven nature priest of mountains and caverns and what not.

Any reason they should be told "no heavy armor for you"??

Mountains, rocks, mining in tune with nature but no plate for you!!!

Really???
 

Some of you seem to have the wrong idea about why I started this thread. I'm not asking from the perspective of a player who's trying to wheedle the GM into giving me something I want in exchange for something I don't want. I'm asking from the perspective of a (potential) GM who doesn't care for the RAW and is trying to find acceptable substitutes.

Now, if you're perfectly happy with the RAW, that's fine. Nobody is forcing you to change anything. But I'm getting tired of the repeated implications that I'm wrong-headed for not being on-board with the notion that clerics should be heavily-armored by default.

Wyvern

I got that impression from your first post, but your follow up to me was asking what I got in exchange from my DM. That moved the goal posts in my opinion.
 
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]I would just ignore responses you don't find relevant.

That's what I've been doing, for the most part.

I got that impression form your first post, but your follow up to me was asking what I got in exchange form my DM. That moved the goal posts in my opinion.

Only because you clearly stated that you were speaking from your experience as a player, and I wanted to know if your GM had had any ideas that might be of use to me. No goal-post moving was intended. Anyhow, my gripe wasn't directed at you.


Wyvern, i think what many are trying to say is as a GM removing hvy arm **and** giving a buff to replace it is going to beef up the build who already would play it in medium or light unnecessarily.

The heavy armor proficiency is more garnish than meal because the very takes on the sib-classes you seek are already powerful.

...

In my games, i anticipate most nature clerics are going to be in medium, but if the player has an idea for why, why should i say no or charge him a feat for it?

I take your point. Though the thrust of my question wasn't so much "I don't think a cleric needs heavy armor, what can I give them instead?" as it was "I don't think heavy armor really fits the flavor of a Life/Nature/Tempest* cleric (*although I'm mostly okay with the last one), can you suggest anything that would be more thematic?" My primary concern is making the domains more distinct from one another.

Wyvern
 

If a tree falls in a forest, does it make any noise?

Until such time as a player in your campaign actually makes a nature cleric, and that nature cleric puts on a suit of heavy armour, the thing you are worrying about does not exist. In all probability, if that happens, it is because the player has a concept for a nature cleric who wears heavy armour. Now, if you still don't like it, however good the player's explanation is, then you, as DM, could rule, at that point, that nature clerics in your campaign's theology, like druids, object to wearing metal armour. This would leave them free to utilise heavy armour made from exotic materials such as chitin (see Ankheg Plate). This could be as easy or hard to come by as you see fit.
 

Some of you seem to have the wrong idea about why I started this thread. I'm not asking from the perspective of a player who's trying to wheedle the GM into giving me something I want in exchange for something I don't want. I'm asking from the perspective of a (potential) GM who doesn't care for the RAW and is trying to find acceptable substitutes.

Now, if you're perfectly happy with the RAW, that's fine. Nobody is forcing you to change anything. But I'm getting tired of the repeated implications that I'm wrong-headed for not being on-board with the notion that clerics should be heavily-armored by default.

Wyvern

But why force your tastes on a player that may not share your them? This is a lot of hand wringing over your basic desire to say "no capes" when someone might want one. D&D clerics have always worn armor (or been allowed to). It's part of the class identity, makes mechanical sense given that healing is typically short range, and helps give them an iconic look different than the bard or mage. There are too few heavy armor wearers in 5E anyways.

What's next? Barbarians can only use 2 handed weapons? I don't get trying to regulate minor issues of style of a character you aren't even playing. It's like trying to dictate someone else's salad dressing choice. Let it go, you'll have more fun than trying to force your players to play the characters you want, in the way you want, and dressed as you want.

Clerics are pretty distinct from each other as is, due to the domain abilities and bonus domain spells. In the unlikely situation of there being 2 clerics in the party, those will create a more unique feel than taking away someone's armor proficiency.
 
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"My primary concern is making the domains more distinct from one another."

I find that the domains play massively different in,my games, much of that from role play and story elements. A nature ckeric, a storm ckeric, a life cleric and a war cleric walking into a town should get massively different experiences.

The armor difference between them are trival compared to all the rest.

If your real goal is to add hooks to make them more distinct, limiting haevy armor chars to only a few is a swing and a miss. Its just cutting out a few concepts but the net impact is almost nil after chargen.
 

Until such time as a player in your campaign actually makes a nature cleric, and that nature cleric puts on a suit of heavy armour, the thing you are worrying about does not exist. In all probability, if that happens, it is because the player has a concept for a nature cleric who wears heavy armour.

First of all, if there's a rule I don't like in a game, I prefer to come up with a solution *before* it comes up in play rather than try to improvise a fix on the spot. Secondly, any players I'm likely to be GMing for in the foreseeable future are people who are new to D&D in any form, and therefore there's no reason for them to have preconceived notions that wearing heavy armor is something a cleric would do.

Now, if all you're going to do is criticize me for wanting to change the rules, instead of making constructive suggestions for how I could change them, kindly drop the subject.


But why force your tastes on a player that may not share your them? This is a lot of hand wringing over your basic desire to say "no capes" when someone might want one. D&D clerics have always worn armor (or been allowed to).

*Every* rule regarding class features puts limits on what the class can look like. Why don't wizards use longswords? Because the rules say so. Why don't fighters have as many hit points as barbarians? Because the rules say so. Why can't a rogue be proficient in the Survival skill? Because the rules say so. Of course, all of these limitations can be circumvented with the right choice of feat or background -- and so can a lack of heavy armor.

And again, the fact that "that's the way it's always been done" is irrelevant, because a) a new player wouldn't know that, and b) I don't particularly *like* the way it's always been done, and I want to do it differently. Essentially, you're questioning my right to make house rules. If you like the rules the way they are and don't see any need to change them, fine. You have my permission to play the game exactly according to the RAW if you so choose. Now go away and leave me alone.

P.S. I'm not the one wringing my hands here. I asked a simple question about how I could make a minor tweak to a few of the domains so that they're more to my liking. If my desire to do that upsets you, too bad.


I find that the domains play massively different in,my games, much of that from role play and story elements. A nature ckeric, a storm ckeric, a life cleric and a war cleric walking into a town should get massively different experiences.

The armor difference between them are trival compared to all the rest.

Fair enough. *But*....

On the one hand, I'm being told that heavy armor isn't really essential to clerics, that a Dex build is a perfectly viable alternative, that giving the character a new feature in exchange for one they weren't using anyway is unbalancing.

On the other hand, I'm being told that proficiency with heavy armor is central to the cleric's identity and that taking that away hobbles the player's freedom to play the class the way it was meant to be played.

You do realize that these two statements are contradictory, right?

Wyvern
 
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