Am I a cruel DM?

[Ambrus]

No offense, but did you railroad them into the crates? You know, like some of the Players did not want their PC inside the crates and suggested other alternatives, but you shot down every idea they had until only the crate-idea was left?

Well, to the best of my recollection, it went something like this (I'm paraphrasing):

PC1: We could have the gnomes carry us aboard in crates.
PC2: Alright but you and me should be locked in the same crate along with it. (two medium sized characters with the chest sized artifact).
NPC: Whoa, there is a maximum size of crate that can be loaded onto the ship.
PC2: Well how big?
NPC gnome: Not much bigger than this (mimes a cube roughly 3-4 ft big)
PC1: Are the crates ready made? Is there any flexibility on their size?
DM: They have some crates ready made but they also have a supply of boards & nails and are able to build them to fit.
PC2: I know, we can have your (PC1) pseudodragon and the sprite cohort (PC3) inside the crate with the artifact.
PC1: No it won't fit with them.
PC2: Why? they're Tiny.
PC1: Yeah but they still take up room in the crate. There won't be much room in the crate asside from the artifact.
PC2: No they're Tiny. That's nothing.
PC1: No it'll be too tight for them. There's no room.
PC3: Sprite, in what crate do you want to go?
NPC sprite: With you of course! (he's madly in love with PC3).
PC1: Besides, I'll need to have my pseudodragon with me in my crate because [convoluted story-specific reason].
NPC: Well, you all could be in these crates for as long as a day. They'll be cramped. The big folk (the medium sized PCs) should only be loaded one to a crate. You'll need room to move a bit and we'll load you up with some waterskins, bread and cheese and a chamber pot. Though the others (the small sized PCs) can fit in the same crate if they want.
PC2 and PC4 (the small sized PCs) decline this offer.
NPC: You'll have to be perfectly quiet the whole time.
PC3: How long will we be in there?
NPC: We'll load you in the crates tonight after dark. You'll then be carried to the docks during the night, probably wait there for a bit until you're loaded into the cargo hold and then you'll have to stay put until well after we've left port, which should be sometime tomorow morning. It could be as long as 24 hours.
PC3: But how will we get out?
NPC: We'll break you out when it's safe.
PC3 remains dubious about this plan.
PC1 then gives the gnome a series of instructions on how his crate must be kept close to the artifact crate at all times and how they should be carried together and loaded onto the ship simultaneously, etc.

If you want a player's perspective on how it unfolded, read Ketharian's post above.

 

[Malic]

FWIW, to me (as a player) this sounds reasonable, realistic and a great story. Sure it'll hurt. But it does sound like the players had plenty of opportunity to realise that the gnome/dwarf faction had different goals to themselves and were split about how to deal with the party, with some individuals being somewhat hostile. It doesn't sound like they had no chance to be suspicious or that you arbitrarily changed the intentions of the gnomes at all. You didn't even take their gear, which sounds merciful to me.

For this level it shouldn't be too hard to find the gnomes and the artifact. Or maybe they can ask their fairy goddess what to do about it (if they get it back) first. Heck, it could even be that these are the best hands for it to be in.

 

[Kilmore]

If you pulled this on our group, we would salute you. I'm serious, we wouldn't enjoy losing the item, and some of us would be mad, but a month later we would be all laughs.

The gnomes had their own agenda, and they were willing to fight the party for the item earlier, something that they weren't able to do with success. Apparently the item couldn't do what it does for both the gnomes and the party's interests so I don't see how the party could not see the conflict coming.

 

[Acid_crash]

I think that is a great way to handle the situation, especially since it was the players themselves that suggested the idea of putting themselves in a crate and even argued against the suggestion of putting the sprite or pseudodragon in with the artifact.

Of course the gnomes, the ones that don't trust the PCs and want the artifact for themselves would take advantage of the gift the PCs presented to them. I mean, if the gnomes wouldn't have done that, I would (as a player) think that the DM was just letting us keep the artifact just because we are the Player Characters and therefore we should keep it.

I salute you.

 

[tonym]

Well, to the best of my recollection, it went something like this...

I was assuming, initially, that the PCs had no real choice--only a choice between entering crates or failure. But it seems that the PCs brought the McGuffin-theft upon themselves by choosing to crawl into the crates. So, assuming there truly was another way to move the McGuffin besides the crates (was there, Ambrus?), then I'm changing my vote to say that you are not a Cruel DM.

Semi-cruel, maybe.

Still, it's a bummer that the consequences of the Players' mistake had to be so dire. I hope you can twist the whole event into a positive thing, and keep that one Player from departing.

PS: Ketharian, are you PC1, the Player who proposed and championed the Crate Idea? Or PC2, who didn't care for the idea of the McGuffin being in the crate by itself? Or PC3, who remained dubious throughout? Or PC4, who was pretty quiet during the whole thing. (I'm guessing PC4 was the missing Player's character.) Just curious.

Tony M

 

[Vecna]

You are mean only if your campaign end there.
Otherwise it's just the beginning of "part 2: artifact recovering": more fun for your players!

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

My big concern over the situation would be the possible change to the player's (not the party's) attitudes towards NPCs.

It was a loooooong quest, obviously, and it's very possible that, in taking the artifact away through betrayal, you've created a group of players who will end up paranoid in the extreme.

The sort of group that, regardless of the characters and regardless of the NPCs, won't ever trust anybody, and will go to extremes of paranoia that are just ridiculous.

I've seen groups like this, and it just isn't pretty from a roleplaying standpoint.

Patrick Y.

 

[tec-9-7]

Overall, I think it was lame (having the g/d faction steal the artifact as they did) and I'd be pretty pissed as a player. If you can get the group to play again, contrive some way for them to follow the ship, and have them come on upon it shortly (as in immediately in real time) w/ the crew having killed one-another infighting over exactly what to do w/ the artifact and bring the damn quest to an end.

Upon further reflection, I'd say you have a pretty serious game-dynamic issue here. You've apparently seriously pissed off a couple of your players and no matter how you 'fix' it, there will probably be some hard feelings (and deservedly so in my opinion) - I don't really know what to tell you... You probably need to find out if the players are still interested in continuing the game. If so, resolve this plot thread fast and move on to something else.

 

[NPC]

I may have missed this in the thread, but did the DM give ample Bluff/Sense Motive opposed skill checks during the conversation with the gnomes?

If the DM gave enough chances for the PCs to discover the true motives of the gnomes, then I think it's okay the way the story unfolded.

If, however, the DM did not use the Bluff/Sense Motive mechanic during the conversations, then I feel the outcome is a bit unfair, especially considering the real time length of the campaign. It kind of takes the wind out of the sails of the PCs, IMO. And they are the stars here.

I mean, what's so bad if the PCs succeed? Why can't they enjoy their moment in the sun?

 

[Ambrus]

So, assuming there truly was another way to move the McGuffin besides the crates (was there, Ambrus?),

Well, the McGuffin is surrounded by an anti-magic field with a radius of 20 ft. (which is why they couldn't simply dimension door, teleport or plane shift away with it). At one point one of the players came up with the idea that they could summon the paladin's flying mount and suspend the artifact 20+ ft. below the mount (or between two flying characters) and simply fly out of the city under cover of darkness. They were nervous about that idea because they feared the city guard would spot them. They kicked it around for a bit and then let it drop when they heard about the ship. I personally thought the idea had some merit.

I also laid out the floorplan for the ship and briefly detailed the crew, their alliances (some were of the gnomish faction, others were not) and how'd they'd react in a fight if the party tried to take the ship by force. It would have been a tough fight (there were a handful of city guards stationed nearby) but they'd would have had the element of surprise and the ship was in an isolated dock so a well executed plan might have succeeded. The paladin character (Ketharian) would probably have disliked this option though unless there was no other choice.

I considered the possibility that they might have tried to fast talk their way onto the ship but it would have been tough because it's a freighter; the crew wasn't expecting pasengers or any new crew members to show up. There was also a city official there who was overseeing the loading of cargo. Still creative PCs often can come up with surprisingly good stories when pressed.

Finally, there is actually a fairy portal within the city's park which they could make use of to escape, but it only opens seasonally. They would have had to lay low for nearly a month until the summer solstice for it to be viable route out.

I hope you can twist the whole event into a positive thing, and keep that one Player from departing.

Yeah, me too.

PS: Ketharian, are you PC1

Ketharian is PC5. I'm sorry I just don't recall her having much to say in this particular debate. She's was generally upbeat and was trying to believe the gnomes had good intentions.

(I'm guessing PC4 was the missing Player's character.)

Your guess is correct.