D&D 4E Am I crazy? I've just gotten a hankering to play 4e again...

[billd91]

Your thinking of the...
D&D® Adventure System Board Games

• Wrath of Ashardalon™
• The Legend of Drizzt™
• Temple of Elemental Evil™
• Tomb of Annihilation™
• Dungeon of the Mad Mage™

...the first three were contemporaries of Essentials, rather than 4e, and the last two have come out since 5e, and show influences from that edition.

Enjoy.

You're missing Castle Ravenloft, which was also contemporaneous with Essentials.

 

[Tony Vargas]

You're missing Castle Ravenloft, which was also contemporaneous with Essentials.

Yes. Oddly, "first three" was correct, even though I left one of them out of the list (or, rather, the WotC site I copied them off of did).

It should also have read, the last three:

• Temple of Elemental Evil™
• Tomb of Annihilation™
• Dungeon of the Mad Mage™

came out after 5e, and showed influences from it.

 

[Inchoroi]

It isn't my favorite edition of D&D, but I really enjoyed playing 4e. I ran it a bit too.

I liked the way everything was broken down into powers. I liked the mathy part of acquiring magic items as you leveled. I liked the extra crunch of trying to get the various PC powers to combo. I liked the 4 roles (Controller, Defender, Striker, Leader). I liked the monster roles. I liked the sources of power - Psionic, Martial, Divine, and Primal. I liked the tiers going all the way up to Epic level (although I never got that high up). I liked the cosmology. I liked skill challenges, although I don't think I ran them right. I even liked using miniatures in play - heck 2 of my 4 regular D&D games use minis (one I'm playing, one I'm running).

I can't say I was a lover of the default setting (Nentir Vale); but at least they printed up FR, Eberron, and Dark Sun.

Sadly, the method of releases were much more like 3rd ed; and the game eventually petered out as we all know.

I have all the Scales of War adventures in pdf, and even printed up the first 5 or 6 of them, and even have a bunch of the maps printed up (!).

So that's all to say - I'd love to play me some 4e.

You know, 4e was great...until I played 5e. Now, I don't ever want to go back. Out of everything, it was speed of play that was always our biggest issue. We usually only have 2-3 hours a session to play--long gone are the days of 8 hour sessions, and I miss them--so being able to get several combats in a session makes 5e better in that respect (previous editions had similar issues, and my players refused my suggestion to try 2e or B/X for differing reasons).

That being said, I do miss the encounter guidelines from 4e. It was so easy to make a campaign back then. I still have a lot of my 4e books, and steal art and monster lore from them on a regular basis. In addition, my absolute favorite part of the edition: campaign synopses. I loved the write-ups where it talks about the broad structure of the campaign, giving you a plot to attach various things to. That alone was worth the price of the books, and I desperately wish they would bring those back as its one of the hardest things for me to do as a DM and writer.

 

[Oofta]

You know, 4e was great...until I played 5e. Now, I don't ever want to go back. Out of everything, it was speed of play that was always our biggest issue. We usually only have 2-3 hours a session to play--long gone are the days of 8 hour sessions, and I miss them--so being able to get several combats in a session makes 5e better in that respect (previous editions had similar issues, and my players refused my suggestion to try 2e or B/X for differing reasons).

Speed of play was one of our biggest gripes. At high level one round could take an hour or more. High level play in 5E can be a bit of a grind if you have people that insist on rolling one die at a time, but you can get around that. If I could just get people to get over analysis paralysis I'd be all set. I never did find a way to make 4E play much faster.

I have to say, I've never understood the desire to go back to 2e or B/X either. Play 5E with just PHB classes and subclasses, no feats. Maybe ignore backgrounds and skills. Wouldn't the result be close? That's probably a topic for a completely separate thread.

That being said, I do miss the encounter guidelines from 4e. It was so easy to make a campaign back then. I still have a lot of my 4e books, and steal art and monster lore from them on a regular basis.

Monster lore was a bit of a mixed bag though, wasn't it? I remember one of my first games when I asked the DM to describe the monster we were fighting and he couldn't. All the MM had was stats - no description, no lore, nothing. I guess that worked if it was a monster from a previous edition that you recognized, but if not you were SOL. Monsters were just a bunch of stats and if you were lucky a picture.

In addition, my absolute favorite part of the edition: campaign synopses. I loved the write-ups where it talks about the broad structure of the campaign, giving you a plot to attach various things to. That alone was worth the price of the books, and I desperately wish they would bring those back as its one of the hardest things for me to do as a DM and writer.

That doesn't really seem to have anything to do with the edition though, more related to mod guidelines.

 

[Zardnaar]

Speed of play was one of our biggest gripes. At high level one round could take an hour or more. High level play in 5E can be a bit of a grind if you have people that insist on rolling one die at a time, but you can get around that. If I could just get people to get over analysis paralysis I'd be all set. I never did find a way to make 4E play much faster.

I have to say, I've never understood the desire to go back to 2e or B/X either. Play 5E with just PHB classes and subclasses, no feats. Maybe ignore backgrounds and skills. Wouldn't the result be close? That's probably a topic for a completely separate thread.


Monster lore was a bit of a mixed bag though, wasn't it? I remember one of my first games when I asked the DM to describe the monster we were fighting and he couldn't. All the MM had was stats - no description, no lore, nothing. I guess that worked if it was a monster from a previous edition that you recognized, but if not you were SOL. Monsters were just a bunch of stats and if you were lucky a picture.



That doesn't really seem to have anything to do with the edition though, more related to mod guidelines.

B/X is easier to run than 5E. 2E is more moddable. And 5E fails at gritty, attrition us a pain.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Monster lore was a bit of a mixed bag though, wasn't it? I remember one of my first games when I asked the DM to describe the monster we were fighting and he couldn't. All the MM had was stats - no description, no lore, nothing. I guess that worked if it was a monster from a previous edition that you recognized, but if not you were SOL. Monsters were just a bunch of stats and if you were lucky a picture.

Actually, every monster had a picture, so there were no descriptions and lore was initially presented based on the results of a knowledge check - so it was terse, but it was there.
Later books, especially the MV, had much lengthier and more conversational lore sections that would fit the monster to a given setting and build in assumptions. Maybe what he was thinking of?

At high level one round could take an hour or more. High level play in 5E can be a bit of a grind if you have people that insist on rolling one die at a time, but you can get around that. If I could just get people to get over analysis paralysis I'd be all set.

The whole analysis paralysis thing is funny: a low-mid level caster in 5e (and almost everyone casts) has a lot of choices every round, and, unlike past editions where not everyone (or not anyone) cast spontaneously, until you've used your last highest level slot, that number of choices doesn't diminish much.

I have to say, I've never understood the desire to go back to 2e or B/X either. Play 5E with just PHB classes and subclasses, no feats. Maybe ignore backgrounds and skills. Wouldn't the result be close?

I should think so. I've run classic modules from the TSR era in 5e, seems like it gets the feel pretty close.

 

[Undrave]

Monster lore was a bit of a mixed bag though, wasn't it? I remember one of my first games when I asked the DM to describe the monster we were fighting and he couldn't. All the MM had was stats - no description, no lore, nothing.

What... that can't true... Maybe there wasn't a description for EACH variation of a monster (like the Goblin Skulker VS Goblin Slinger) but they all had blurbs of lore you could get with a knowledge check. The idea that your DM had a monster that was just a name and stats feels off. Unless it was in an adventure?

I wish I had my 4e Monster Manual handy just to see if I can even find a monster without any details.

 

[Oofta]

B/X is easier to run than 5E. 2E is more moddable. And 5E fails at gritty, attrition us a pain.

So eliminate all the optional rules, implement the "gritty rest" rules. Heck, if you want to take Gygax's opinion to heart eliminate cantrips. Anything else you wanted to pull in from previous editions (wands with n number of charges ever, scrolls, etc) is easy.

As far as being easier to mod that's not an opinion that's going to be shared by everyone. I find 5E incredibly easy to mod, even though I don't do it much.

But, like I said ... separate thread.

 

[Tony Vargas]

What... that can't true...

...someone said something about 4e that wasn't true?
Color me shocked.

 

[Oofta]

What... that can't true... Maybe there wasn't a description for EACH variation of a monster (like the Goblin Skulker VS Goblin Slinger) but they all had blurbs of lore you could get with a knowledge check. The idea that your DM had a monster that was just a name and stats feels off. Unless it was in an adventure?

I wish I had my 4e Monster Manual handy just to see if I can even find a monster without any details.

My wife basically threw my books out (I burned out on 4E, she grew a burning hate of a thousand suns) so I can't look. I guess it could have been a monster from a mod, but I distinctly remember a "players want crunch, not fluff in the MM so we're not going to provide much if any".