D&D 3E/3.5 Am I missing something (shapechanging in 3.5)

[youspoonybard]

Ah, but it's not meaningless if the monster has a different Hit Die, is it? Or you could interpret that you get the different HD...

In any event, if you've never changed HP before, then I'll take it for granted. Thanks guys!

That is, until Wizards tells us we DO change HP. Or something.

 

[Urbannen]

Interesting problem with the Polymorph spell:

Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night

According to the official rules on healing, a subject gains no hit points for resting for one night. A subject only gains hit points for resting for 24 hours. This means that no healing is gained from Polymorph unless you are using house rules that allow for faster natural healing.

Another interesting point: you can gain an alignment subtype that is contrary to your alignment.

 

[Camarath]

And since Polymorph is "As Alter Self," then your brontosaurus (Huge) could not turn into an ant (Fine).

Polymorph lifts the restriction on changing your creature type, but it does nothing to lift the restriction on size.

From Polmorph

"You can't cause a subject to assme a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form."

IMO this replaces the Alter Self size limit. I think that the implication is that the target can assume any size not smaller than Fine.

Also, if we want to be strictly technical with the size limit provision in Alter Self and Polmorph it would be with in one size of your (the caster's) size not the target's size and not less than Fine. So if the caster was Diminutive your brontosaurus (Huge) could indeed be turned into an ant (Fine).

If you look at this... the effective hit point entry I posted, as well as the hit point entry... ANY temporary change of Constitution results in additional hit points, whether they come from a magical item, spell or effect. However, they are not lost first, like temporary hit points.

Explicit spell effects trump normal rules.

 

[Plane Sailing]

According to the official rules on healing, a subject gains no hit points for resting for one night. A subject only gains hit points for resting for 24 hours. This means that no healing is gained from Polymorph unless you are using house rules that allow for faster natural healing.

In 3.5e the healing rules have been clarified, so it is 8hrs rest at night which gives you the hp back... not resting for 24hrs.

 

[Camarath]

I hope that they didn't *really* indulge in this kind of doublethink, it would have been completely mindless!

The sensible option on WotC part would be to have put that restriction only in the Polymorph description, since that is where the clarification is actually needed! Alter Self cannot change attributes and thus the hp provision is meaningless there.

I am sure that they did not think about it quite that way but they did some thing similar in making these spells a chain. In a spell chain like this you must understand the first spell to understand the second, and then you must understand the first two to understand the third, and so on. This works fine for simple spells but can be horribly confusing when applied to complex spells like the polymorph spells. IMO the entire effect of each polymorph spell should have been spelled out in it's description. But that would have increased the page count and we can't have that, now can we. IMO a fare amount of other rules and explanations seem to have been abbreviated for the purpose of space.

 

[Urbannen]

In 3.5e the healing rules have been clarified, so it is 8hrs rest at night which gives you the hp back... not resting for 24hrs.

Oh thank God. and there was much rejoicing...



The things that Alter Self says do not change, and that are not addressed in the other spells, are:

-class
-level
-hit points
-alignment
-base attack bonus
-base save bonuses

By a literal reading of the rules, these things do not change. Now, it makes sense that if your Constitution changes, your hit points would, too (a concept that is in fact supported by myth and legend, such as in the fairy tale "Puss in Boots") - but officially, no.